jorgeam86 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > So let’s say that Mexican commandos, without US > consent, raid some compound in El Paso, TX based > off intel indicating that Joaquin Loera (head of > the ruthless Sinaloa cartel and at the top of > Mexico’s most wanted list) is hiding out in a safe > house. You don’t think Americans would be pissed > about the incursion and breach of sovereignty? That depends. Would the commandos go home when they were done?
higgmond Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > jorgeam86 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > > So let’s say that Mexican commandos, without US > > consent, raid some compound in El Paso, TX > based > > off intel indicating that Joaquin Loera (head > of > > the ruthless Sinaloa cartel and at the top of > > Mexico’s most wanted list) is hiding out in a > safe > > house. You don’t think Americans would be > pissed > > about the incursion and breach of sovereignty? > > That depends. Would the commandos go home when > they were done? Not sure how that’s a make-it-or-break-it clause but sure, they go home post operation. I contend Americans would be extremely pissed despite the hasty departure and rightfully so IMO.
>>>By siding with shady characters at all to fight a perceived greater evil it’s like kicking the can down the road, it doesn’t eradicate the problem. Nope, the problems of Communism and Naziism are essentially eradicated as serious threats to the world, particularly when compared with 30 years ago. Your comment is just factually false. On balance the world is simply a much better place with significantly greater populations living in freedom that at any point in human history. Progress is being made, not kicked down the road. And your stereotype that Americans are obsessed with military power and tactics (whatever that means) reveals much more about you and your biases than it is a realistic commentary on the average American. I understand the populist scapegoat attraction of the “blame America first and foremost for everything” mentality but that doesn’t make the rhetoric any less lacking seriousness.
Thing is that if Mexico notified the US that Joaquin Loera was there, the US would happily go pick him up for Mexico. Not the case with Pakistan and OBL.
I’ve just switched off a press conference with Barack Obama in a military base! This on a day where 15 people were killed in US drone attacks in Pakistan, he conveniently ignored that fact. This isn’t unusual to see. If you tie this in with the standard “thank our troops for protecting our country” line every 5 seconds it’s clear as day that the US are obsessed with military action. I’d be open to debate on the positive merits of US military presence in global issues, what is not debatable in my opinion is the permanent back slapping and bravado US authorities (and a high percentage of normal citizens) give to their military efforts. I’d say that the collapse of Communism was more down to people power within those nations themselves. The tension between both Russia and the US went on for decades after the end of WW2, so I’d stand by the fact that the initial harmony during WW2 was a marriage of convenience. Although to be fair I don’t think either of us are arguing that point, we are both in agreement with that.
I retract my statements then. I had no idea that you just saw Barack Obama at a press conference at a military base!
I’ll admit that was pretty funny 
jcole21 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I’m with Chi Paul, you get what you tolerate. We > don’t tolerate that $hit here. what Pakistan tolerates is U.S. drone attacks which have killed more than 2,000 people. “Speaking at the White House Correspondents’ Association dinner in May, Barack Obama spotted teen pop band the Jonas Brothers in the audience. “Sasha and Malia are huge fans, but, boys, don’t get any ideas,” deadpanned the president, referring to his daughters. “Two words for you: predator drones. You will never see it coming.” The crowd laughed, Obama smiled, the dinner continued. Few questioned the wisdom of making such a tasteless joke; of the US commander-in-chief showing such casual disregard for the countless lives lost abroad through US drone attacks.” http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/dec/28/us-drone-attacks-no-laughing-matter
Ah, that’s the tradition of the correspondents’ dinner. It’s a good joke too. Rock on Barack.
Tikka! dude, you’re an evil man.
murders&executions Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Pakistan Foreign Secretary Salman Bashir said the > following today: > • “Any similar action violating the sovereignty of > Pakistan will warrant a review on the level of > military/intelligence cooperation with the United > States,” > • ”There should be no doubt that Pakistan has a > capacity to ensure its own defence.” > Assuming he’s speaking on behalf of Pakistan, I’d > declare war today. > > We should all be able to agree that one of two > things happened; 1) Pakistan knew Bin Laden was > living in the country, or 2) Pakistan didn’t know > he was there. > Combine of whichever one of those two cases you > choose to believe with their attitude that they > don’t have a problem (“There should be no doubt > that Pakistan has a capacity to ensure its own > defense,”) and it’s clearly a hotbed for > terrorism. > > Now, if they readily admit that they are > incompetent and don’t have the capacity to ensure > its own defense, I retract all of my statements. > > Given that Bin Laden was living there, I have to > think he was not the only high level al-Qaeda > operative on their soil at that moment. I hope we > have some intelligence on other high level > terrorist there and we repeat the same type of > raid today, tomorrow, and the next day. If > Pakistan has the gall to release any sort of > statement after those raids, we drop one, very > targeted missile on their president’s head. You’re a hot head idiot who doesn’t have a clue about how complex the political situation is over there. Getting into more wars with piss-ant third world countries is not going to do us any good.
Chi Paul Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > >>>By siding with shady characters at all to fight > a perceived greater evil it’s like kicking the can > down the road, it doesn’t eradicate the problem. > > Nope, the problems of Communism and Naziism are > essentially eradicated as serious threats to the > world, particularly when compared with 30 years > ago. Your comment is just factually false. On > balance the world is simply a much better place > with significantly greater populations living in > freedom that at any point in human history. > Progress is being made, not kicked down the road. > > And your stereotype that Americans are obsessed > with military power and tactics (whatever that > means) reveals much more about you and your biases > than it is a realistic commentary on the average > American. I understand the populist scapegoat > attraction of the “blame America first and > foremost for everything” mentality but that > doesn’t make the rhetoric any less lacking > seriousness. I would say that the proportion of GDP and government revenue that are directed towards military spending. The proportion of the American population that is directly employed in the armed services and indirectly employed in the defense industry. As well as America’s history of overseas military engagement’s are all very strong factual arguments in support of Eoghan’s statement regardless of where you believe such a statement originates on the political spectrum. Secondly, I don’t see how an ideology by itself can pose any threat, thoughts and belief mean nothing without action. It is what people do in support of such an ideology which constitutes a threat to humanity. In that way fighting for democracy and liberty poses the same threat to freedom as fighting for fascism or Islam because either way you’re using coercion to force others to comply with your ideology.
samakh Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Tikka! dude, you’re an evil man. Nah, that was a pretty good joke.
bodhisattva Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Chi Paul Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > >>>By siding with shady characters at all to > fight > > a perceived greater evil it’s like kicking the > can > > down the road, it doesn’t eradicate the problem. > > > > > Nope, the problems of Communism and Naziism are > > essentially eradicated as serious threats to > the > > world, particularly when compared with 30 years > > ago. Your comment is just factually false. On > > balance the world is simply a much better place > > with significantly greater populations living > in > > freedom that at any point in human history. > > Progress is being made, not kicked down the > road. > > > > And your stereotype that Americans are obsessed > > with military power and tactics (whatever that > > means) reveals much more about you and your > biases > > than it is a realistic commentary on the > average > > American. I understand the populist scapegoat > > attraction of the “blame America first and > > foremost for everything” mentality but that > > doesn’t make the rhetoric any less lacking > > seriousness. > > > I would say that the proportion of GDP and > government revenue that are directed towards > military spending. The proportion of the American > population that is directly employed in the armed > services and indirectly employed in the defense > industry. As well as America’s history of > overseas military engagement’s are all very strong > factual arguments in support of Eoghan’s statement > regardless of where you believe such a statement > originates on the political spectrum. > > Secondly, I don’t see how an ideology by itself > can pose any threat, thoughts and belief mean > nothing without action. It is what people do in > support of such an ideology which constitutes a > threat to humanity. In that way fighting for > democracy and liberty poses the same threat to > freedom as fighting for fascism or Islam because > either way you’re using coercion to force others > to comply with your ideology. Listen kiddies, the thing is we all have our own selfish interests at heart. Competition, drives everything we do, from a biological level all the way up to GDP and military spending. Any nation that could exercise the same type of influence and control that America does, given the opportunity to do so, would. The will to power is strong and omnipresent just about everywhere. Of course the US tries to stay on top with whatever force it can muster. Even Charlie Sheen understands this. “Duh, winning?” Trying to say it is right or wrong, or trying to stop humanity from following the will to power is about as feudal as trying to stop glaciers from moving. I for one, am very glad that our overlords, at the moment at least, are Americans. Perhaps this is because I am one of them. But I’m also fairly certain that I would be much less happy under a Mongol Yolk, a Maoist regime, or a Jihadist (all strong leaders by the way). You guys probably are better off with America on top, for now at least until someone better comes along. So you are both right. Yes. EgohnLyons America is big and mean and keen on keeping its power. I’m assuming that you are French. Remember the two most revered Frenchies in history, Louis 14th and Napoleon. Loved and revered still in france, because in their time France had the power. The rest of the world might not of loved them so much (russians called napoleon the antichrist), but you guys did. Just like I’m sure you didn’t like Caesar that much when he came and raped and pillaged the place, but the man is still synonomous with glory and leadership everywhere else. Hitler would be revered by Germans still had he won the war and written history. But he lost. Point is, don’t lose. And yes Chi Paul, we are better off with the US promoting “democracy” or whatever it is we claim we do. That’s just because a better more dominant leader hasn’t developed yet. That will happen eventually. As for all you flatfooted softies, when India and I take over the world we will not hesitate utterly dominate and crush the rest of you. Hinduism, an old and venerable religion, understands humanity very well. Their two principle gods, Shakti and Ganesh, represent the worship of wealth and power respectively, in my opinion. While liberal western thinkers like to pretend hypocritically that the pursuit of money and power is a vulgar evil thing, Hindus know that pursuing the best interest of your family through the pursuit of money and power is the most rational thing one can do. I can’t think of anything more pious than using predator drones to take out your enemies. Enemies are those people that who would hurt or disadvantage your children. Were the Jonas Brothers to try to copulate with my daughters it would behoove me to push the kill switch. The Horror, the horror, the horror.
^ I wouldn’t be pissed in the Mexico scenario. If someone we can all agree s a bad guy gets taken out, I don’t care who did it, why, how or where it happened. It’s a positive. What I may be pissed about woul e that our own government was so ineffective at managing out security that we had that sort of garbage living in our borders and someone else had to do the work for us.
ChickenTikka Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- >I can’t think of anything more pious than using predator drones to take out your >enemies. Enemies are those people that who would hurt or disadvantage your >children. Were the Jonas Brothers to try to copulate with my daughters it would >behoove me to push the kill switch. The Horror, the horror, the horror. so children dying in North Waziristan would ensure the safety of your children?? and Jonas brothers are gay so your daughters are safe. ChickenTikka Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- >EgohnLyons America is big and mean and keen on keeping its power. >I’m assuming that you are French. You’re a dope at this. My guess: EoghanLyons is an Irishman.
bodhisattva Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > murders&executions Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > You’re a hot head idiot touché
Haha, I’ve been wrong before, Samakh, as you know
Haha a french guy named Eoghan Lyons
PedPenny, I’m assuming you are eskimo.