for the record, my post wasnt intended to be insulted. i will blame the fact that english is not ur first language and forgive you. and i also retract my insults
My post was about how a music major should think about their skill set when asked how their background can add value to financial analysis. Of course, it emphasizes the composition aspect (which has analogies to portfolio composition). If you are primarily focused on playing an instrument (including voice), that is a harder sell, although you can emphasize detail orientation. A good instrumentalist needs to be very precise and detail oriented to perform well. One of my more important clients was a Philosophy major in undergrad. People laugh at this stuff, but epistemology is pretty important to investment analysis, because it informs your risk assessments. Epistemology focuses on understanding on how you know what you know. If you don’t know how you know what you know, you are likely to underestimate your risk, which means that you will systematically overexpose yourself. The way the mathematics of risk sizing works out (Kelly criterion), overestimating your risk doesn’t hurt long term performance nearly as much as underestimating your risk. If you have good epistemology, you are able to identify flaws in reasoning much better, which biases your risk assessment upwards in good times but protects you more in bad times. This was borne out by my client in 2008. I was at a presentation by one of Barclay’s heads of quantitative strategy last month. He also was a Philosophy major at Princeton. None of this means that you can be expected to do well in investment work without basic math skills, and understanding your way around at least the portion of the CFA L1 curriculum that’s relevant to the job, but any time one sees a non-traditional major on the list of interviewers, a good hiring manager should think about how that diversifies the thought processes going into the investment decision. A bad one will just laugh and say “can you imagine that?”
SuperiorReturn Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > for the record, my post wasnt intended to be > insulted. i will blame the fact that english is > not ur first language and forgive you. > and i also retract my insults don’t apologize, she’s a selfish bich. you caught her and she blamed everything on being too good for everyone and not understanding our petty language.
I retract the comment that the person’s literary qualifications are questionable, given that it’s probably not in English. However, I don’t retract the insinuation that he or she is a jackass.
Bchad, A little diff to read and type from my mobile. Just want to say that analitical mindset is important in finance, and if some musicians are born musicians on some god knows super intuitive way, others are not, and i approached music analitically. Music theory is quite mathematical, believe it or not. The harmony has strict rules, and the rhythm which is thouroughly calculated. I remember my piano classes, when you had to count out loud all the time. Besides it’s a lot of discipline, especially if you give concerts, and you always do, at least participate several times a year. And memory is trained as well.
Sincerely music is much more difficult than passing CFA.
Valores, I think we’re converging on principles here. My main point is simply that there’s no reason to assume that a music major can’t be an added value to an investment team and I was suggesting some of the places where that training and mindset can be beneficial. Obviously, there would need to be some other indications of investment-relevant talent and/or dedication to proceed further, but there is no reason to throw the resume away just because you saw “music” in the education section. It sounds like we more or less agree, though.
I always thought there was a correlation between musical and mathematical talent … haven’t there been studies done on the effect youth musical training had on development of basic math skills? I’m not talking pop-diva training- rather classical music… reading music, playing notes, etc. I don’t think musicians are in the same class as other artists. All of the musical geniuses I’ve known have struck my as analytical minds- even somewhat savant like… similar to the high math people I know. There is a lot of spacial and complex relationships in both fields- especially when you get into composition. My brain cannot comprehend these systems/ relationships- they can. I went to school in a consortium with one of the top math/hard science colleges in the country and a lot of the students did music in addition to the program. Both my sister and brother excelled in music and are naturally strong in math.
yes i read that there was a correlation as well.
Preston Athey sings
I just wanted to say, that unless you are a born genius, and a very intuitive person, you have to be very analitical studying both music and literature. I wanted to stress that studying music and literature is not just descriptive, you learn to strip a piece of music or a book, knowing exactly which “device” produces which effect. It can even prevent you from enjoying music in a normal way. Just now i have been to the bar with a live piano music which was killing me. I say music is harder to strip and analyse because you have to have a good ear, you can train it but there are limitations. The same with singing, not enough to have the voice, but essential, and you should be analitical and well organised. By the way there are intuitive geniuses in finance as well. And then the analysts try to figure out how that worked. Intuitive criminals, whoever
“I went to school in a consortium with one of the top math/hard science colleges in the country and a lot of the students did music in addition to the program.” Kids who do well in school tend to play musical instruments because of parental encouragement, i.e. both the good grades and musical ability are results of being nurtured from a young age. Good grades and musical ability also depend on persistent work - this, rather than natural talent, might be the explanation for the correlation between academic achievement and musical ability.
My music profes were really glad when they knew i was good in math at school, it obviously helps, especially if your ear is not as “smart”. There is so much logic in music, that to analyse it you don’t have to be a genius just analyst.
that is true- but you can say the same thing about sports and painting and being a skilled socially- I have just found that those who are ‘naturals’ at composing music also have an ease in math. Just as those who are ‘naturals’ at being team leaders also tend to be good managers- and its not because their parents supported them through pee-wee’s. Meaning- your parent’s can support you at whatever- but I still think that at the top levels there are innate talents involved- and those skills that are required for classical music and math are actually quite similar. abstract thinking, ability to process many things in you mind at once, logical progressions, etc.
i am not sure though that natural music geniuses are good at math, unless they get a traditional musical education where your analitical skills are thoroughly trained
ohai Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > “I went to school in a consortium with one of the > top math/hard science colleges in the country and > a lot of the students did music in addition to the > program.” > > Kids who do well in school tend to play musical > instruments because of parental encouragement, > i.e. both the good grades and musical ability are > results of being nurtured from a young age. Good > grades and musical ability also depend on > persistent work - this, rather than natural > talent, might be the explanation for the > correlation between academic achievement and > musical ability. Let me further the anecdote with the fact that there was also an elite liberal arts school- and proportionately there were much fewer music geeks. There were more drama/ debate club kids.
Musicians are mostly idiots or drug addicts. Just look at T Pain or Kid Rock.
brain_wash_your_face Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Preston Athey sings So does John Ashcroft (US Attorney General during the W’s first term). Look it up on youtube. It’s a total trip! (I believe he wrote the song)
I’ve seen people blessed with voice and ears, but who have not studied music, and sometimes they take the wrong note. Painful, that i can hear it.
Valores Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > i am not sure though that natural music geniuses > are good at math, unless they get a traditional > musical education where your analitical skills are > thoroughly trained thats exactly what I mean- classical musical training in youth rewires your brain to process data a way that is conducive to math training- from what I’ve read anyway 
I’m not talking about voice lessons for Jean-Bennet…