everyone is unique… i have friends who graduated from mediocre MBAs who got very high paying jobs on Bay Street right out of school…I have friends who graduated relatively top MBA who have horrible jobs…Some people pass all the CFA levels, FRM, et cetera and are still stuck doing monkey work…some pass level 1 and somehow land incredible jobs… DON’T bank on any one credential as a ‘sure thing’ to land a great job…You need a COMBINATION of skills… communication/outgoing/networking skills are highly valuable and so many nerds/no social lives/boring isolated people lack these and THESE are to blame…not CFA as a designation
not referring to anyone out there in particular…just tired of people believing an employer should hire someone solely because they passed some exams or finished a program at university… Don’t get me wrong, I wish this was the case!! In these times, with unemployment so high, jobs in finance are rare…it’s tough to get in…just keep trying and don’t give up.
oldboy321 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Take the easy road you have the money get an MBA Really, an MBA is the easy way? The application process alone takes a year, the schooling another 2 years. The tuition is typically $80,000+, and with foregone wages total cost is generally about $200,000 - $250,000. And after all that, even many MBA grads from top schools (Wharton in particular) graduated in 2008, 2009, 2010, with no job and $100,000k+ in debt.
oldboy321 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Passed all 3 levels here. I can’t even get an > interview at a small investment firm. DB > (www.db.com) has all their management program > accepting mostly MBAs as can be seen from their > career site. It’s not too late to abandon CFA, now > that you have only passed level 1. Let go of your > pride thinking that beating CFA is the only way to > prove yourself. Take the easy road you have the > money get an MBA, getting CFA simply doesn’t pay. This guy sound so bitter, go to the MBA forum instead! He’s probably the guy with no work experience or even a personality. All these people talking about the MBA, this and that. the CFA charter, this and that. At the end of the day, they are all just compliements to your personality and work experience. MBA from top school with no personality and no work experience is probably worst, since you wasted more time and money doing the MBA then the CFA. So quit the comparing of MBA and CFA.
Wendy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > oldboy321 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Take the easy road you have the money get an > MBA > > > Really, an MBA is the easy way? > > The application process alone takes a year, the > schooling another 2 years. > > The tuition is typically $80,000+, and with > foregone wages total cost is generally about > $200,000 - $250,000. > > And after all that, even many MBA grads from top > schools (Wharton in particular) graduated in > 2008, 2009, 2010, with no job and $100,000k+ in > debt. That’s why I said “if you had the money” not some kind of borrowed money.
not all of us live in NYC, toronto, london and other major financial markets. Try landing ANY finance gig ( including internships) in places such as New Zealand, or Dubai without experience. I have a meaningless and unrelated job as an administrative assistant in a government organization in auckland, new zealand and I have already saved enough money to make a move to Sydney, Australia by the end of this year. the economy is booming over there, and with a little help from lady luck, i just might make it there.
whystudy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > oldboy321 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Passed all 3 levels here. I can’t even get an > > interview at a small investment firm. DB > > (www.db.com) has all their management program > > accepting mostly MBAs as can be seen from their > > career site. It’s not too late to abandon CFA, > now > > that you have only passed level 1. Let go of > your > > pride thinking that beating CFA is the only way > to > > prove yourself. Take the easy road you have > the > > money get an MBA, getting CFA simply doesn’t > pay. > > This guy sound so bitter, go to the MBA forum > instead! He’s probably the guy with no work > experience or even a personality. > > All these people talking about the MBA, this and > that. the CFA charter, this and that. > > At the end of the day, they are all just > compliements to your personality and work > experience. > > MBA from top school with no personality and no > work experience is probably worst, since you > wasted more time and money doing the MBA then the > CFA. > > So quit the comparing of MBA and CFA. whystudy why are you getting offended? I merely answered gk11’s question about passing all levels without work experience. You have your story (about all your wonderful job and personality), I have my bitter one. In the end gk11 will weigh and decide on his own.
I agree with oldboy. People who are lucky enough to get a break into the industry, whether it was through an internship, administrative roles, networking, etc, not only are ahead of us who never had a break, they also usually act quite confident and I sense a slight hint of arrogance, as if their entry to the world of finance and their acumulating work history was their god given right, and that they possess some sort of magical character trait that makes them superior to those less unfortunate folks. I am not saying that knowledge itself is sufficient to succeed. Personality is definitely important and would sure help along the way, but im 200% sure that there are alot of folks out there who do both have a stellar tom cruise personality and the brilliance of einstein, but STILL didnt break in, you know why? because they are just plain unlucky. Ponder that .
Being where the action is half the battle. Moose, your decision to move to Sydney is so the right one. GL when you get there!
mr_moose Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I agree with oldboy. > > People who are lucky enough to get a break into > the industry, whether it was through an > internship, administrative roles, networking, etc, > not only are ahead of us who never had a break, > they also usually act quite confident and I sense > a slight hint of arrogance, as if their entry to > the world of finance and their acumulating work > history was their god given right, and that they > possess some sort of magical character trait that > makes them superior to those less unfortunate > folks. I am not saying that knowledge itself is > sufficient to succeed. Personality is definitely > important and would sure help along the way, but > im 200% sure that there are alot of folks out > there who do both have a stellar tom cruise > personality and the brilliance of einstein, but > STILL didnt break in, you know why? because they > are just plain unlucky. > > Ponder that . If people with stellar personality and brilliance can’t break in bec they are “just plain unlucky” You can just as easily make the argument people who got in and “just plan lucky”.
mr_moose Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I agree with oldboy. > > People who are lucky enough to get a break into > the industry, whether it was through an > internship, administrative roles, networking, etc, > not only are ahead of us who never had a break, > they also usually act quite confident and I sense > a slight hint of arrogance, as if their entry to > the world of finance and their acumulating work > history was their god given right, and that they > possess some sort of magical character trait that > makes them superior to those less unfortunate > folks. I am not saying that knowledge itself is > sufficient to succeed. Personality is definitely > important and would sure help along the way, but > im 200% sure that there are alot of folks out > there who do both have a stellar tom cruise > personality and the brilliance of einstein, but > STILL didnt break in, you know why? because they > are just plain unlucky. > > Ponder that . I agree with you, but on the flip side you can also say a lot of people who don’t have a job and claimed to be brilliant and have a personality of tom cruise; those same people also blame others and luck for not getting their job or a break into the industry. But never blame themselves. Many people who go into foreclosure blames the government or job economy etc; they same people don’t blame others when they make money on real estate with zero down payments. Same argument can go both ways.
I feel for you but echo the above in that you should focus on a job first. B school is a great route to get in to banking but you need some kind of work experience to get in to B school. Have you considered working with something completely non traditional as a road to get into B school then finance? Some of the top firms drool over alternative work experience prior to school. I know a guy who was the bassist in a rock band before IBD and he’s killing it now. My route was through the military. I’m not saying join the Army, but if you’re having trouble getting into the industry in any form can you think of another industry you’d absolutely kill it in that would set you up for a finance oriented B school? It seems to me technical finance interview questions are all the same and it’s just a check the block exercise - no CFA or MBA required to answer them. You get hired on your personality / story.
mpreskett, Hey DUDE! dont be talking in junior hs manner to me, u got that?! If you read my posts carefully u would know i dont plan to sit on my @@s and just study… as a matter of fact i ve been working non stop since the age of 17 and during college almost full time hours… its just recently i got injured and i had few month off. The fact of the matter is that if u r born poor, u stay poor. Education is just one of the ingredients that is necessary to make it, but more importantly LUCK, support system (financial, among other things) connections, extra curriculum activities, internships and all other things that make u stand out among the competition is non existent when u come from poverty bc they r just too busy trying to survive day by day. Now there r exceptions, but its true for the majority of the time. So, they dont make it not bc of lack of try but bc their background prevented them to get the competetive edge that is required to succeed. And a lot of times the people with poverty background work much harder and have stronger work ethic but employers couldnt care less abt it… They just wanna c the standard criteria, basically internships, clubs in college, recomendations and nothing else matters bc they just dont give a damn in order to be a little more open minded and think little differently abt hiring process. As far as social skills go, thats definitely not a problem with me(not trying to sound arrogant) but i ve heard and experienced few times through all the interviews, people who are in finance are more liikely to lack any social skills whatsoever. Also, you can see that when u go to CFA exams. Now, to give perfect example a friend of mine who works in well respected financial company, he has few coworkers and he sometimes scratches his head, wondering how in a world they got their job bc they are so incompetent… while his friends (i am not talking abt myself here) r unemployed or underemployed. So that shows connections or simply being at a right time, at right place plays BIG role! in other words LUCK. Looking forward to more comments (without trying to be smarta$$, tough guy wanna be or arrogant, if thats the case keep to yourself!) Thank you 
I passed Level 3 and have an MBA from a state school. When I do get job offers it’s for half of what someone from a good school would get with no MBA, not having passed any of the CFA exams, and almost no experience. It’s getting a little frustrating and I’m thinking about going to med school. I’ve started in on the MCAT already. At least with a medical degree I would be able to get paid decently for my efforts…
Um. Some job offers are better than no job offers? I mean, what are your expectations really?
panda2012 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I passed Level 3 and have an MBA from a state > school. When I do get job offers it’s for half of > what someone from a good school would get with no > MBA, not having passed any of the CFA exams, and > almost no experience. I’m not totally surprised, top school degrees are very valuable during hard times when jobs are scarce
I also scored a 710 on the GMAT but did not pursue a higher ranked school for various reasons, work experience and finances being two of them.
I have to agree that sometimes “luck” does play a part. Being born in a third world country is definitiely not lucky per se. Keep pluggin away, the harder you work the luckier you will become my friend.
if i was trying to be an actor, i would do everything to get to Hollywood or Bollywood or wherever the major film industry is located. if you want to be in finance and you aren’t in Singapore, Hong Kong, London, NYC, etc., then you have no reason to complain about 2nd tier or 3rd tier opportunities. you aren’t playing the game where the big league is located.
prophets Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > if i was trying to be an actor, i would do > everything to get to Hollywood or Bollywood or > wherever the major film industry is located. > > if you want to be in finance and you aren’t in > Singapore, Hong Kong, London, NYC, etc., then you > have no reason to complain about 2nd tier or 3rd > tier opportunities. you aren’t playing the game > where the big league is located. Very well said. If you are serious about getting into the field, you need to move where the opportunities exist. I experienced this problem in the last city I was living - too small, limited opportunities - and now that I am living in the major city for Finance…I can barely handle all the calls for interviews (seriously though, it was too easy finding a job…albeit an entry level position)