bpdulog Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > bluesman Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > For those of us trying to break into the > industry, > > doing the CFA was supposed to help our chances > of > > getting in. > > Wrong. If you look at the demographics of > charterholders in the past you would notice the > majority were already working in finance. And what about the minority? Do they not count? What about those who passed a few levels, got into the industry but didn’t go all the way and get the charter? How do we know for sure that they didn’t have the same goal of pursuing the CFA as a ticket in?
bluesman Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > bpdulog Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > bluesman Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > > > For those of us trying to break into the > > industry, > > > doing the CFA was supposed to help our > chances > > of > > > getting in. > > > > Wrong. If you look at the demographics of > > charterholders in the past you would notice the > > majority were already working in finance. > > > And what about the minority? Do they not count? > What about those who passed a few levels, got into > the industry but didn’t go all the way and get the > charter? How do we know for sure that they didn’t > have the same goal of pursuing the CFA as a ticket > in? They’re exactly that: a minority. If you expect to break in just because you have the charter then I’d say you’re pretty delusional.
bpdulog, Im sorry to burst your bubble, but this minority you speak of is growing, especially with the state of the world economy. Hordes of undergrads from all over the world with no experience whatsoever are enrolling into the CFA level 1 exam in the hope of improving their chances, which only seems like the natural thing to do because they are simply trying to earn a competitive advantage. Your second statement needs to be carefully constructed again because a person who has earned the esteemed charter (which you seem to be acutely proud of, quite naturally of course) has already broken into the industry.
mr_moose Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > bpdulog, Im sorry to burst your bubble, but this > minority you speak of is growing, especially with > the state of the world economy. Hordes of > undergrads from all over the world with no > experience whatsoever are enrolling into the CFA > level 1 exam in the hope of improving their > chances, which only seems like the natural thing > to do because they are simply trying to earn a > competitive advantage. Your second statement > needs to be carefully constructed again because a > person who has earned the esteemed charter (which > you seem to be acutely proud of, quite naturally > of course) has already broken into the industry. Your thinking isn’t quite right. Look at university degrees in the 70s; it was mainly for people to get an edge over others, however, time has changed and now it’s a requirement to get any finance/investment job (you wont even get any entry level job without a university degree). But the same token, soon enough and the trend has already started, almost all investment/finance related job states CFA designation or pursuit as a preference. As an employer and also hiring for analyst at our firm, I personally would look at candidates with at least level 1; they might not be as smart or know as much, but how else can I filter if I don’t know anything about any candidates too. the CFA designation has become a base for interviews as I can select from a handful of people who have it. Why interview someone that doesn’t have the designation if the experiences are similar to one that does. So bottom line is, it’s not really for an edge but it’s becoming an essential part of the industry.
on the contrary, your argument improves my point. If the CFA has become an essential part of the industry as you have clearly suggested, then this would clearly further strengthen the motivation for undergrads to enroll into the program in order to differentiate themselves from those who don’t. bottom line is, less employment prospects+CFA becoming more essential = increasing number of undergrads enrolling into the CFA program.
mr_moose Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > on the contrary, your argument improves my point. > > If the CFA has become an essential part of the > industry as you have clearly suggested, then this > would clearly further strengthen the motivation > for undergrads to enroll into the program in order > to differentiate themselves from those who don’t. > > > bottom line is, less employment prospects+CFA > becoming more essential = increasing number of > undergrads enrolling into the CFA program. yea, I think it’s pretty much becoming an industry standard. it’s not even if the people want to get an edge, it’s more like they now know that everyone is apply for it, so they are at a disadvantage. so the glass is either half empty or half full.
What exactly are we arguing about? Is it: 1) Taking the CFA is necessary to get a job or 2) Taking the CFA will cause you to get a job ?
mr_moose Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > on the contrary, your argument improves my point. > > If the CFA has become an essential part of the > industry as you have clearly suggested, then this > would clearly further strengthen the motivation > for undergrads to enroll into the program in order > to differentiate themselves from those who don’t. > > > bottom line is, less employment prospects+CFA > becoming more essential = increasing number of > undergrads enrolling into the CFA program. You know what, that’s perfectly fine. But if I were a hiring manager, would I rather hire a PM with 5 years of experience managing portfolios and a decent track record or someone who cleared all 3 levels with no direct experience? The job market is extremely competitive and employers can basically cherry pick those they want to hire. I think having the charter means a lot and can certainly differentiate yourself from someone who doesn’t have it, but that’s only one factor to consider. Think about the licensing costs, relocation costs, training costs, etc. The guy with 5 years of experience can hit the ground running while the other person may take a month or two to get up to speed.
bluesman Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > For those of us trying to break into the industry, > doing the CFA was supposed to help our chances of > getting in. hahahahahahahaha who gave you that idea???
No-one here is saying that one guy with the CFA and no experience should be hired over another guy who doesn’t have the CFA but 5 years of experience. If you think that what we are arguing should be the case then you are the one who is delusional. The CFA as a way of breaking in is supposed to enhance the prospects of one candidate over another (neither of which has any real experience or anything else that counts) for an entry level type position. That is where I see the benefit, along with most other people I would have thought. Like mr_moose says, it’s just a way of getting a competitive advantage which seems totally natural in it’s logic. When people have a moan about not being able to get a job or an interview, what they are really complaining about is the lack of opportunities within the current economy. Unfortunately the value of the CFA as a ticket in has diminished because the economy is in the toilet.
bpdulog Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > would I rather hire a PM > with 5 years of experience managing portfolios and > a decent track record or someone who cleared all 3 > levels with no direct experience? The job market > is extremely competitive and employers can > basically cherry pick those they want to hire. take this a step further. In today’s market, you’ll probably get multiple candidates with BOTH 5 years and cleared all 3 levels. I got an ER job at the start of this year, and graduated 2008. So I’ve been through the whole interview process two times in this sh*tty market. Did the CFA help to land me the ER job? Yes. It was passing L2 that was the final kicker that got me in. But it was the experience I had that got me to the final rounds. From what I’ve seen, after 40+ interviews these past 3 years, you need BOTH experience and CFA exams to get to the level where you have a real shot at a good job in finance.
Bluesman likely isn’t anywhere near the industry…and doesn’t know much about it… First off… is it just me, or doesn’t a CFA charterholder HAVE to hold atleast 4 years of relevant work experience…as soon as you have a charter, the value is obviously worth much more…especially compared to someone as a teller who has passed all 3 levels The way I see it, in large cities if you have passed a few levels of CFA…getting an ENTRY level job in Finance is not difficult… as long as you have good networking skills, communication, decent university background etc… don’t worry Bluesman, i won’t post anymore on this topic lol…i’ve wasted enough time.
^ you are right, bluesman doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Having the CFA means you have 4 years of experience.
OK, obvious silly mistake on my part interchanging CFA charter with passing all 3 levels of the exam. I still stand by my point that pursuing the charter and thus passing the exams is a valid way of positively differentiating yourself from a similar person who says they want to work in finance but is not pursuing the charter. If we can’t at least agree on that then I guess I am wasting my time with this topic too.
Was linked to this thread by another (as I have no reason to be on the L3 board), interesting stuff. I passed L1 and had two interviews this past month as a result.
lxwarr30 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Was linked to this thread by another (as I have no > reason to be on the L3 board), interesting stuff. > I passed L1 and had two interviews this past month > as a result. what entry level job though?
whystudy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > lxwarr30 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Was linked to this thread by another (as I have > no > > reason to be on the L3 board), interesting > stuff. > > I passed L1 and had two interviews this past > month > > as a result. > > > what entry level job though? 1 management consulting 1 analyst at financial information firm good stuff for me ;0
lxwarr30 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > whystudy Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > lxwarr30 Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > Was linked to this thread by another (as I > have > > no > > > reason to be on the L3 board), interesting > > stuff. > > > I passed L1 and had two interviews this past > > month > > > as a result. > > > > > > what entry level job though? > > 1 management consulting > 1 analyst at financial information firm > > good stuff for me ;0 but that jump to front office will be hard.
whystudy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > lxwarr30 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > whystudy Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > lxwarr30 Wrote: > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > ----- > > > > Was linked to this thread by another (as I > > have > > > no > > > > reason to be on the L3 board), interesting > > > stuff. > > > > I passed L1 and had two interviews this > past > > > month > > > > as a result. > > > > > > > > > what entry level job though? > > > > 1 management consulting > > 1 analyst at financial information firm > > > > good stuff for me ;0 > > > but that jump to front office will be hard. Ya, I never said it was front office. I’m just saying it does change your candidacy a little to give the guy some support.
Who else besides me is still unemployed after passing 2011 lvl 3 exam?