I sympathize with your guys’ status, but I’m saying that it’s all about networking. You can apply to 1000 jobs online and get no response. I know I have.
hydrogenrainbow - r u not afraid someone will can your application because u r thrash talking your future employer on the forum here?
Did I thrash my future employer? I do not think what I said can be classified as bad mouthing, and what I said was not directed only at Barcap. I was speaking about most of the banks in general.
I think networking is slightly overrated too. It’s all about self interest. And in a 3 party referral system, it is not always the case that things will flow. My economics dean, a world famous economist, voluntarily offered to help me. He passed my resume to a CEO of a huge Europeanfinancial institution, and I still have not heard from them despite inside information that the CEO instructed HR director to find me a job. Maybe market is really that bad, or CEOs’ have lost their power to division heads. HydrogenRainbow - Sorry I don’t have msn. Drop me a mail and we can correspond.
Every job I’ve gotten since my first job out of college was started through a personal referral. If you think networking is overrated, you must be doing it wrong.
I’m in the same position as you guys…fresh sg grad with some holiday exp in some banks but no openings until now…still waiting for the right one as all the positions i get do not justify my qualifications…but after reading some of the replies, i think i shld reconsider my position and accept anything that comes along cos the of the gap issue. sigh
Damn, what should I do… I am new in the town…I don’t know nobody…no friends…no family…and I speak a languge they don’t understand and even worse I don’t understand their language. Now tell me how this networking thing works?
@ mystically: i do agree with you. but as time goes by, the worse it’ll get. i did 2 summer internships …one at citi and one at jpm. but it seems like the way internships work here is very different from how it works over in europe/the US. even if you interned there befoer you’d still have to go through the same application process as others… argh. i feel very shortchanged too (i have good grades, good internship experience, cfa L1…What more can you ask of a fresh grad?) it doesnt feel good. but oh well. we gotta admit that opportunities are less abundant here in this little red dot.
Hydrogen - you are right about going through the same process after an internship at a big place. CS offered 25 intern positions at my uni, and didnt offer a single job offer after that. I did mine at LB and it doesn’t seem to make a difference to getting a perm offer. At the end of the day, perhaps it really is true work experience trying to get a job at the start of 2008. We are the first to truly experience the biggest job challenge in a globalised financial world right after crazy boom hiring.
try and go for a more entry level position and work your way up. nick leeson started in the back office too.
lol. and i aspire to be the second nick leeson/jerome kerviel. hurray!
A backoffice job is better than no job. It shows that your not some punk that’s never worked a day of his life holding out for “a management position” to quote Uncle Eddy. We all know it’s a bad time in the industry and that getting a job now is not easy. But it seems that we are offering your folks ideas (I’m a LIII candidate who has been working BO for a year now) and you guys aren’t listening much. Listen to numi. He’s gone from BB ER to PE. He knows his shiza!
Hey Halifax, I seroiusly am giving it some thought abt settling for what seems like a financial reporting job (even if i get the management trainee program i’d need a job for the next 1/2 a year) (i posted the job scope in pg 1 and am hoping for some commetns on that… i just hope it isnt too administrative like the name suggest though…). i am going to do my best for that on friday, but i’d also be hoping for the best for my graduate management trainee program…
Sure I mean whatever bad jobs are just a part of life. Do what you have to and when the market improves make your move. Period
whats wrong with Back Office? It’s only a “trap” if you make it so. If you are employed it is easier since it shows other employers that you can get and hold a job , you are “employable” and you can be taught things, plus you meet people on the inside, people in the industry, who have friends, family members, connections in the industry… thats the most important part. Maybe your back-office boss turns out to be a brother - in - law of the cousin of well known PM? and if you nice to him he’ll even introduce you to them…
Straight out of undergrad, unless you’re rich and don’t have to work, I never understood the dream job or no job mentality. Recruiting opportunities went like this at my school: Small handful of Ibank jobs, zero S&T, zero Research, and the other 98% were MO and BO roles. I took what I could, which was a crappy BO job, and networked my way out to better roles. Not easy, but tenacity etc. best of luck
I guess the difference in perspective is due to the different cultures we are located at. Moving from BO-FO is certainly common in Europe/US, just like getting a secured offer after an internship. Back in Asia, it certainly is a different scenario. Of course there are exceptions, but in general the back office trap does exist. Perhaps it is the Asian culture of hierarchy but BO and FO staff are not known to even socialize in Asia, as it probably is more common in the West. There is a clear separation over here. And so when we grumble of not getting a FO job, it certainly is a bigger issue here than in other parts of the world. Any opinions on this?
hplee: Absolutely agreed on the point about internships. And I know that managers are extremely reluctant to take interns on cliient calls. I experienced this myself, and I know of a fellow intern who received a short, curt “NO” from his mentor. Summer Interns are always relegated to doing some f-ed up work like loading the copier machine, booking air tickets for the managers and so on. I tried asking for work to do, like, even approaching my colleagues, saying that I want to help. But it is always brushed off. My fault? No! Seriously I feel that interns in Singapore are very shortchanged both in terms of pay and exposure. An IB SUmmer Intern in Singapore gets paid only SGD$1000 a month. THat works out to only a couple of hundred USD, but I know IB summer interns in London could be looking at say, 30,000 pounds p.a.? It seems that things work rather differently here, sadly. **hplee, if you want I can pass your contact to a HH if you are fine with doing BO stuff at the big banks. Let’s see if she can help. Otherwise, I really do hope you can get what you want at a small firm.
HydrogenRainbow Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Hey hplee, I am in a similar position as you, > just that I completed my coursework in Dec07. It > definitely sucks, and I did interview for an ops > job at Barcap. It seemed that passing CFA L1 is > very “intimidating” to those f-ing ops dudes.I > remember that ops dude pressing me for the exact > requirements and so on. I said yes, i need 48 mths > of relevant work expeirencne but surely you could > just get the exams over and done with, and worry > about the work requirement after passing the exam. > Never got called back for the 2nd interview. > When I went for an interview at this small > independent ER firm, again the interviewer was > asking me, you have CFA L1, so what is it you are > seeking to do? Are you thinking of being an > analyst in a big bank? Well, obviously he knows > that I won’t want to remain there for long. > So it kind of like puts u in a sh**. U have the > CFA L1, which definitely puts u at a better edge > over most Singaporean fresh grads (think of it, > how many of them actually tkae the exam before > they graduate? Not many I believe). Now I am > willing to be shortchanged and do an ops job at a > nice bank, but here you are, you get scared stiff > when i say i have L1. What the heck? > It seems that over here in Singapore they are not > willing to take fresh grads at all. But I think > that is stupid??? I mean, everyone has to start > somewhere right? Weren’t those peeps sitting in > that corner room once fresh graduates? > I currently am in the midst of applying for 2 > graduate programs (just had the phone interview > with 1 of them on Monday night). With the help of > a HH, I am going for an interview with Macquarie > for a Financial Reporting role (the job scope > involves supporting the ops exec and reporting to > the biz manager). I am going to do my best and > prepare for it like the way i prepared for my > phone interview for the grad program. > It’ll be good if i could get that job because > -It’ll be a backup in the event I fail to secure > either one of the graduate programs. If that is > the case, I’d work there for a couple of months > till the end of the year, and then re-apply for > the graduate programs since a large number of them > do accept people with <2-3 years of experience > -Since the graduate program will start only in > sept 08, this will give me a good amount of $$ and > I can learn something. > > > By the way this may be kinda off-topic, but what > do you all think of this job? Does it come across > as one which I can learn? > > Operations > > · Prepare monthly Offshore Reporting Pack > for the Singapore Office & Operations review for > Head Office. > > · Review Fee notes in accordance with > client mandates. > > · Follow up and manage debtors including > deferred settlement on deals. Obtain commentary > from transaction directors on the long outstanding > debts for impaired asset listing. > > · Prepare Out of Pocket (OOP) reports to > transaction directors for review. If write off > required, follow up with the transaction directors > to obtain the necessary approvals. > > · Submit OOP code request to Sydney for new > projects. > > · Send out copies of new signed mandates > and OOP code to FOD, Tax, Doc Mgt. > > · Maintain list of projects based on new > transaction approval forms and mandates. > > · Update staff matrix on a monthly basis > based on staff details list for Asia Exec > Directors / Division Directors meeting. > > · Collate monthly Operations Review Report > for submission to Sydney. > > Finance > > · Answer simple queries from Executive > Assistant’s in relation to expense payments > including issues relating to industry, product > OOP, and GST codes and compliance with IBG’s > expense policy. > > · Assist Operations Executive with Transfer > Pricing (TP) process including completing the > revenue allocation spreadsheet and liaising with > the deal team and Sydney on any queries on the TP > documentation. > > · Review the TP invoices prepared by Sydney > and ensure they are in line with finalised TP docs > and local invoicing requirements. > > · Reconcile revenue transfer priced in/out > booked in GL against our TP documents to ensure > accurate booking. > > · Review the reconciliation of revenue > booked in GL vs fee note register prepared by FOD. > To highlight and investigate when variances > occur. > > · Ensure timely submission of fee note > register and fee notes to FOD at month end for > closing purposes. > > · Review nostro reconciliations and notify > FOD to take receipt of incoming funds and to > update fee note register. Why would want to work in OPS? u have a level 1!!
Go for a back office role. Seriously. Don’t site at home, that’s career suicide.