if people want to pay several hundred to a 1000 to have a lawyer work with you, go ahead. I just think it’s a further extension of the $99 retabulation money you’ll never see again and not win.
You’re probably right, but “losing” is not exactly a binary construct. Here’s the punishments for writing on scrap paper during the exam:
From 1 January 2010 to 31 December 2013, the following sanctions were imposed for this violation, either as accepted by the candidate or imposed by a hearing panel composed of Disciplinary Review Committee members:
- 38 Private Reprimands
- 45 One-Year Suspensions
- 19 Two-Year Suspensions
- 8 Three-Year Suspensions
- 1 Four-Year Suspension
- 5 Five-Year Suspensions
- 1 Prohibition from Participation
If a lawyer can help you explain your situation in a manner that would push a 4-5 year suspension to a 1-2 year, or a 1-2 year to a private reprimand, then I’d say it’s worth it. Of course, there’s no guarantee they would, and that’s why I’d hesitate to hire one. But you’re painting these proceedings as black and white, win or lose; that’s simply not true.
JSD getting me a little hot and bothered on this thread
I believe that JSD just compared Tom Brady to…some dude that took a finance exam. Credibility gone.
Ha… So does that denigrate Tom Brady or the guy taking the test?
Well unless finance dude is the GOAT, then the answer is clear.
And I liked you before this! PITTSBURGH ALL DAY!
Ha! Maybe next time you guys should try to put at least one defender on Gronk 
ignore iteracom
JSD never had any credibility. He just passed level 1, and despite an abundance of evidence otherwise, maintains spending a ton of money on a lawyer (wherein he fully misses the point that CFAI disciplinary actions ARE.NOT.A.LEGAL.MATTER) would result in a different outcome.
Oh, and I just want to add, that while some actions (with respect to securities laws violations, FINRA violations et al) are a legal matter, where it would be wise to avail yourself of some counsel, the judgment of a proctor and CFAI is NOT one of them
Professor Ham Sandwich coming in hot!
when I’m not cooking top-tier hamburgers, I am a lawyer online
Thanks for the clarification, Prof. (The all caps with full stops really helped.) I hadn’t realized that CFAI disciplianary actions are not, in fact, legal matters, but that helps to clarify the matter. I’m going to try shouting at my clients to see if that gets points through. You should try being a lawyer; you’d be awesome at it.
You mean “et cetera”. “Et al” references people. Again, thanks for the bolding.
If you haven’t done anything,I feel bad for you…PCP at L3 is the worst thing that can happen to a candidate…if you are not guilty, you must fight…if I would have been at your place, I would have done anything to prove “not guilty”.
Don’t let somebody else dictate you that you have cheated in the exam…its a blot on your integrity…mistake can happen from a proctor too…so fight it out…
OK… I’m going to stop this thread before it turns into an old fashioned flame war (that’s what the kids called it back in the nineties).
You guys definitely have strong opinions on whether or not to use an attorney in CFAI PCP disciplinary proceedings and I respect that. Your strong feelings also seem to demonstrate a deeper-held position that litigation and lawyers are overused in our country and, again, I respect that. I personally think that litigation can be overused and is frequently abused in our country.
My position which I have tried to articulate as best as I can is that one needs to do a cost-benefit analysis between how incredibly expensive it is to retain a good lawyer vs. the possible benefit one may bring to the table in a disciplinary hearing. It’s certainly not a good idea to engage a lawyer in every case (or even in most cases). But I would believe that in threshold cases, it may make a difference and given the severe consequences that a disciplinary violation can have, doesn’t seem unreasonable. In concluding that, I leverage a little of my life’s experience in seeing how attorneys can in fact provide value to clients engaged in private disciplinary actions. You feel that there is no point battling the CFAI PCP and I can’t argue with your perceptions. We disagree as smart people do all the time, but that doesn’t make me “retarded” or without credibility.
In any case, we’ve both made our points here, so I am going to retire from this thread. I hope that even if you disagree with me, I have at least set forth a point of view that may give you or others something to think about.
JSD, I got your back. You seem like one of the smarter people on the forum. Anyone that speaks in absolutes, e.g. itera, professor hamburger, among others sound ignorant. I swear, most active participants on this forum live and die with the CFA and they sound like tools. Long story short, a knowledgeable lawyer would be one of few people I would heed advice from in a quasi legal situation that is a PCP, not people who are closed-minded or communicate strictly by hashtags.
OP hasn’t bothered to reply since page 2 so we’ve probably gone beyond his scope.
If he wants to spend big money to hire a lawyer, that’s his business, he can go ahead. All I’m saying is the odds of success with or without one really don’t change much.
I’m sure JSD is putting on a front here, pressing for the need to hire an attorney. Once he garnishes interest in the thread, he solicits his legal services to those “in need” via p.m. Nice capitslistic approach.
I will give credit where credit is due - I guess I conflated those terms (god knows how long I’ve been doing that inadvertently). I mean, I do know how to use etc in a sentence, but now that I think upon it, I guess I supposed et al didn’t specifically mean related others (as in people), but related others (as in, anything). Which makes it functionally identical to how you’d use etc, lol, so my mistake.
That said, also accept my humblest internet apologies. Its easy to jump down someone’s throat on the internet. You sound like a bright guy, that and at the end of the day we’re both trying to help a guy in a bad position.
I still 100% disagree with you points. I wouldn’t expect someone not embroiled in the peculiarities of the CFA program to know (talking about the hypothetical, soon-to-be-hired lawyer here), but there are some major disincentives to “getting a lawyer” and if he had any ethics himself, he’d probably dissuade you from hiring him.
- The obvious - Not a legally resolvable issue (has a court ever in history compelled a proctor / private co to rescind a cheating on a test claim, where from the outset it’s known its their word vs. you? genuinely curious?) and its costly. It adds no legitimacy to your pov, possibly even harms it. I liken this to getting a lawyer because in your karate class the sensei said you weren’t ready to get that blue belt, but you, like, totally kicked that one kid’s ass, and he’s getting the blue belt, and its not fair. It should be yours.
- PCP investigations for cheating have something like a 99.5% resolution against the candidate
- The real decision is, do they just invalidate your score, or kick you out for one to forever years?
- There is no insight into how that sausage is made, but one can infer it has to do with scope of “reported cheating” / # of proctors involved
- The result of past PCP-ers on this board in similarly drawn out threads show anecdotal evidence that saying something to the effect of “I deny that I cheated, but in the interest of moving forward, I accept whatever recommendation the Institute brings forth. I would never want to damage the integrity of the CFAI, profession, and field, and wish to move forward” then the issue resolves relatively quickly. I have read threads where it takes them a year to even get back to the candidate saying “we invalidated your score, try again next year”. But by then, it’s too close to the next test to realistically sit (like, they stop selling tickets, what it is, a qtr before the exam?)
I think if you sat down for an initial consult, the lawyer might draft a letter for you, but I doubt he’d be inclined to take it any further. There is no claim, the unilateral, near 100% the outcomes are negative, there is no meaningful timeline, so he’d say what every experienced person (in these matters) is saying, which is it really sucks, but move on.