or … just leave phone numbers blank and don’t write the comment. I never have phone numbers for references on me, who would? So I think it’s ok to do this. Good luck.
samnyc Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > That’s rude and may knock you out of the running. > Just put in the complete contact info and smile, > woink, look at your crotch, whatever. I understand that the power dynamic says that they want your info, and they can decide you’re a bum for not bending over and giving them everything they ask for right up front, while they don’t have to give you their secret investment formula or anything, or let you know if you’re about to work for a bunch of ba$tards. But I don’t think it’s rude to say, approximately: “I’ll give you the power to get me fired when we are further along in the process and it looks like there is interest on both sides in closing a deal.” Besides, after you know more details about the job, you may have a different set of references in mind.
Couple of points: This is HR who request it, not the hiring manager. You can tell them that you will forward them the references, but it should not/does not have to delay the interview process. There are lots of documents that need to be transacted during the process. Do not ask a current colleague unless you know he is looking to leave to. Even then, risky. Look for people elsewhere, such as ex student friends who work at other banks, people that your parents know, your bank manager and so on. You probably have friends with a job. All you need is someone who has a real job with some responsibility that they can pick up the phone to and ask them to give a professional opininon of you. Like someone said, it is not the make or break decision here.
HR has the power to knock people out. References that do not include a current supervisor are suspect. Paranoia has a terrifically high opportunity cost. Employers won’t call current references, especially if you ask nicely.
Just to be clear: my point was just that it’s not rude to say “I’d like to give you those at a later point.” As you say, it may be a bad strategic decision, given the power dynamic and risk-reward, but it’s not rude.
gamblingeconomist Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > 1morelevel Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Come on somebody? > > I don’t think that will help. LOL
bchadwick Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Just to be clear: my point was just that it’s not > rude to say “I’d like to give you those at a later > point.” As you say, it may be a bad strategic > decision, given the power dynamic and risk-reward, > but it’s not rude. When you do this, you are in effect dissing their hiring method and they will look kindly on another applicant who may be equal to you in qualifications but much more cooperative. HR puts a lot of thought in their hiring process (for better or worse) and they don’t like being dissed.
Yes, but just because I take offense at someone doesn’t mean that they were actually being rude. Maybe they dissed me by deciding to hire someone else, and I’m offended: that doesn’t mean therefore that HR was rude. Obviously, it’s a strategic decision just what to reveal and when, and most of the time, the risk is worth the reward, but just because HR feels entitled to something does not mean they actually are entitled. You simply make a cost benefit calculation about the risks and rewards… How likely are they to be careless with their reference inquiries vs. how likely you are to 1) want the job, and 2) get it. Most of the time, the risk is worth the reward, and you definitely take a risk by saying “I’d like to give you that information later on in the process,” but it is not rude to do so if you have said so nicely. Most firms I’ve been involved with ask for references toward the end of the process anyway, so this is a fairly practiced norm, and is not a weird standard to employ. I’m sure the firms you deal with are of the utmost quality and discretion, samnyc, but that probably has a lot to do with your quality controls. There are definitely places that are not as scrupulous as your clients.