Black Swan I have been in the business 15 plus years and have lots of clues. I agree with Keys… I hire lots of folks and if some one came to me with all three levels done and didn’t merit atleast 90k with no experience based on their interviewing abilities I would tell them to move on to something else. If someone can’t translate all of the knowledge and present a professional confident front then they never will. Get out to some of the Society events with head hunters there is lots of great advice and guidance out there.
Entrepreneur Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Black Swan I have been in the business 15 plus > years and have lots of clues. I agree with > Keys… I hire lots of folks and if some one came > to me with all three levels done and didn’t merit > atleast 90k with no experience based on their > interviewing abilities I would tell them to move > on to something else. If someone can’t > translate all of the knowledge and present a > professional confident front then they never will. > > > Get out to some of the Society events with head > hunters there is lots of great advice and guidance > out there. +1
Entrepreneur brings up some interesting points. Presentation / communication skills are the deal breakers. I think this is what separates finance / consulting / accounting from other sectors in that you have to be a competent salesmen to an extent. You can be a brilliant person but if you lack the social skills and you have to deal with clients, then you’re not going to get the job. You have to be competent to some level, measured by licenses and/or designations for many of these high-paying jobs, but your ability to service is equally important. That’s why business is considered sexy to let’s say… engineering. Number of years of experience is not always the deciding factor in measuring competence, but when you’re a recruiter, it’s the best thing you have to measure how well the person will perform. Depending on the recruiter, the charter will most likely help but it alone isn’t enough. You need at least two things going for you (whether it be experience + charter, charter + social skills, etc.)
Entrepreneur Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Black Swan I have been in the business 15 plus > years and have lots of clues. I agree with > Keys… I hire lots of folks and if some one came > to me with all three levels done and didn’t merit > atleast 90k with no experience based on their > interviewing abilities I would tell them to move > on to something else. If someone can’t > translate all of the knowledge and present a > professional confident front then they never will. > > > Get out to some of the Society events with head > hunters there is lots of great advice and guidance > out there. How often do you come across such a candidate? 3 levels passed, no job experience, yet interviews well? 3 levels passed is nice, but all it proves is the person knows finance academically. Without experience, that person is still entry level (and probably interviews like one). From your response, seems like you only hire experienced folks that require very little training. And your requirements for a job candidate (having 3 levels done and possess the ability to “translate all of the knowledge and present a professional confident front”), for that you’re looking at 120k+ base salary talent.
artvandalay Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Who cares, if you have an offer to get some good > experience and this is what you want to do, you > should do it. The experience is more important > than the pay of your first position. > > After a few solid years you can bounce for more > cash. I second that. The reality is that the job market is full of unemployed experienced professionals. Experience is more important than your first salary given you can support your family, etc.
ASSet_MANagement Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > pgh.ndt Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I love that this guy makes a jump most people > say > > is impossible and instead of helping him, or > > congratulating them most comments are about how > it > > can’t be done, or it’s meaningless. > > > > Do I sense some envy here? I love how people > > treat this industry like it’s a gov job, you > need > > to get an MBA, be a sell side analyst for 2 > years, > > then be a buyside analyst then finally you > somehow > > automatically earn the PM role. And it’s > > discussed as if there is no other way… > > > > I don’t know any more than the OP, but > obviously > > this firm sees something in this person they > like > > and see them as PM capable. I say > congratulations > > on making the job, good luck and enjoy the new > > job! > > > You have wayyyyy to much faith in the system, I’d > say the people on AF are more realistic, which is > why I like it so much. People aren’t afraid to > tell you the truth. > > It’s awesome OP jumped offices and got a job, do I > think becoming a PM in 2 years is intelligent? No. > Not on the OP’s part, on the firms part. Somehow my thoughts are split between these 2 posts. I do smell something fishy, but maybe AF (which basically consists of people, including me, who have had limited/no success in their career in finance) has made me sceptical and paranoid. In any case, congrats OP !! I hope it works out for you.
Kevin0118 … I was responding to the original post… I actually think someone with no experience and having passed the three levels is not a good candidate at least at first glance. No one I know has an appetite to train anyone (the head hunters are calling it “repotting yourself”) . I would always prefer to get someone with industry experience who has an interest and willingness to pursue a CFA or any other designations or degrees. Nothing hands down beats experience especially since we are all very short staffed. I think the person who originally posted can work with it but I think there are way too many smart people who do the academic work but require way too much hand holding once they get in to a company. For anyone just starting the program or some place in the middle of the program. My advice is go get a job in the industry. Learn the culture and lingo. If you are working in a whole other field the question it raises to me is why is someone spending three plus years of their time and lots of money and not getting up every day and working in the field. I appreciate the current job market but it’s a lot easier on the ego to take a lower paying position while you are studying and then you can make the push in to a high level position once you get your charter. From a salary negotiation position how do you move without a lot of effort? The CFA is not a golden ticket its part of a well balanced professional pedigree. Just my perspective not the only one or the correct one but give yourself a fighting chance its very competitive out there .
Entrepreneur Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Kevin0118 … > > > For anyone just starting the program or some place > in the middle of the program. My advice is go get > a job in the industry. Learn the culture and > lingo. If you are working in a whole other > field the question it raises to me is why is > someone spending three plus years of their time > and lots of money and not getting up every day and > working in the field. I appreciate the current > job market but it’s a lot easier on the ego to > take a lower paying position while you are > studying and then you can make the push in to a > high level position once you get your charter. Problem with that strategy is a lot of people are taking the test to give them a chance to get in the industry. It’s very hard to get in the business, but if you were a finance major in college, do you really wanna be stuck doing F500 finance for the rest of your life? This is our only shot. Networking is cool, but without passing the CFA tests I don’t see somoene getting the opportunity in most cases. Our only game plan is to pass the CFA, network our butts off, and pray to God the something comes our way even if it’s making $40K.
Just a suggestion if you like, Why don’t you try on Risk Management or quantitative analysis side (mostly derivatives+IT kinda role it’s raining in this sector these days, or trading system development/ trader support systems, all these pay very good). Your finance knowledge, IT knowledge and and your MBA degree, all three combined makes a solid profile for such roles. I am not sure if someone will be interested in offering a fundamental analyst role to you. You are a senior now. You should get a good role if you will try on more managerial role in finance+IT related function, and of course you can get better then 65k. But if you are insisting on becoming a fundamental analyst, then… I don’t know.
Dont Agree!!! I did it in less than 2 years . From Research Analyst to Associate PM in 8 months. Then PM. I wont say its the norm!!! Its a factor of a number of things; opportunity, company, how much you can absorb, relationship with the " big guys" and yes LUCK, EVEN THOUGH I BELIEVE YOU CREATE YOUR OWN LUCK!!! I think the toughest part is getting the entry level position, since they recruit directly from " Star" B-School for a junior analyst position.
Lol…maybe the finance world is different in whatever country you guys and gals are in, but if I was doing due diligence on a fund and saw that the PM’s bio said “6 months as gopher, 3 months as analyst, then promoted to PM”, I’d honestly piss myself laughing. What must your investors be told by your prez/CEO? “Well, I was gonna hire my fifth grader to run this fund but he’s a little difficult to understand over the squawk box”. C’mon guys…now your title may be “PM”, as in “Personal Maid” or “Professional Manwhore”, but there’s ZERO chance of any U.S. fund staying in business and/or raising new capital by introducing a PM to investors who doesn’t even have the requisite four years work experience for a CFA. Sorry, gotta call bullshit on this.
Oh, but to answer your question…$65K is a reasonable amount for zero investment experience but passing all three levels of the program. I’d equate that to about a second year analyst, give or take.
One more thing - in terms of the title “PM”, I’m strictly speaking about the org chart. Without tooting my own horn, I probably did as much PM if not more than the “actual” PM at my old job (he was a dumbass who struggled to comprehend the structural nuances of CLOs, and I’m a pretty bright sonuvabitch, if I do say so myself). That being said, my title was still “analyst”.
i was a CEO of myownbul$hitcompany.com in the summer of my junior year in college, a tech start-up. believe in yourself and anything is possible, guys. and i dont have an MBA - hell, i didn’t even have a BA back then