sure- sundevl21@aol.com, will be glad to answer any questions
You are a lucky guy, SH will be a blast. Lzen5 posted the most correct info thus far. Yeah you can survive without Mandarin, the people in the offices you would most likely be working would all speak decent English. Mandarin is easy anyhow and you’ll pick it up by living there. Pay is weird and you need to negotiate Western-ish pay, not the $10K/year a SH finance guy might be making. Cost of living is cheap, I don’t understand why anyone would live in those Expat areas, but since you have a family maybe that is attractive. I like Pudong side personally, there are some cool areas by the century park with trees and nice walking streets, quieter. Subway is great, no need for a car. Goods are cheap and barter is fun. Chicks are ALL hot and nobody is fat over there, but I guess you won’t be enjoying that. Regardless you will have to play strong D the entire time, they are aggressive. You can go out for amazing healthy food every day for next to nothing, if you like Chinese food, or spend a fortune on foreign food if you must. You can hire a cook, a driver, a masseuse, a maid. Anyhow, a few things to get you started, higher quality of life in general over there if you ask me.
justin88 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Honest question… don’t they speak Shanghainese > in Shanghai? On the streets, like to the cab guy. Shanghainese are sorta the “I’m better than all of you suckers” of China. So if you are a SH cab driver and someone gets in and speaks Mandarin, or with a non-shanghainese accent, you know they are some hick villager from the middle of goat-f!@# nowhere. 
But for some white guy it is not important, but if you can speak a little Mandain, just for manners sake it is nice. Anyhow language in the office isn’t an issue, the educated people he is working with will speak English. However it is really amazing how few people outside that office world speak even basic English. And if they do they won’t let on.
i can’t imagine how you would be able to find a job there after you get there. Don’t most expats get sent over to China? trying to get a job there after you land is basically taking away all of your advantages imo. are you going to be applying to the American/european banks once you get there?
If he has a pocket of money already he can live like 10,000 years on Chinese purchasing power parity waiting for a job…but yeah his negotiation strength is cut in 1/2.
There are loads of expats who can’t pronounce one word correctly, and when they make an effort, it looks funny. I speak Mandarin, by the way. I heard about one guy working for a German multinational, who spoke very well Mandarin and had to conceal it from his coworkers, as the common belief at his firm was that the expats who speak Mandarin are literally crazy. In no way it is an easy language. Grammar is easy, but in order to get there you have to learn to pronounce correctly. And reading, and especially writing is crazy difficult. As for the pay, no way you get a local pay. For expats there are two types of pay: expat package, including rent, car, mobile, air tickets for the whole family twice a year, salary is sent to the overseas account (which is good, because at least before there was hardly possible to transfer money or even take cash away), etc., and I guess your wife will get that. Usually it’s for people who are sent by their companies. And the second type of pay is expat local hire. It can be even the same or lower salary, whatever you negotiate, but no perks like in the expat package. The local finance guy would make more than 10k. I knew some shanghainese girls and guys from CEIBS hired by McKinsey for 70k, and the tax is very low. I knew a shanghainese girl in 2003 who worked as a personal assistant in a small firm, she earned 12k. And I knew a shanghainese guy who worked for Eli Lilly as a pharmacist and he earned over 50k base. My American friend 25 yo, told me then he earns over 100k, local hire, but quite high position, in a very small American business. Ok, my boss then was 25yo, and he earned loads of money, as his rent that he paid himself (at least he told me he does not have a package) was 3000 usd per month. Expat package usually included 3000-5000 rent for middle managers.
The secretary in my firm(don’t ask me how I knew that) earned crazy 17k, but my boss was a rich 25yo, so he wouldn’t care as long as she would organize all his life and his wife’s life. I had somewhere a survey of salaries in shanghai, which I thought were a little too low in comparison with what I had seen, if I find it I can send it to you. May be then you can find an updated version from this company ( I don’t remember the name). They divide it in 3 groups: expat package, expat local hire, and overseas Chinese local hire
I have a strong suspicion that Sally is a female. I don’t know what leads to me to this feeling, let just call it intuition… It could be something to do with the sea shells part of the name. Or could it be the sally part? Hmmm hmmm hmmm
Muddahudda Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I have a strong suspicion that Sally is a female. > > I don’t know what leads to me to this feeling, let > just call it intuition… > > It could be something to do with the sea shells > part of the name. Or could it be the sally part? > Hmmm hmmm hmmm I think you nailed it. Funny how machista this website is, when even “Sally” is treated as a guy, and the first thing suggested is to get girls. Sorry to mention that, Sally, but the divorce rate is very high in the first months of a new western couple arriving to Shanghai, statistically. I knew a girl who worked in Shanghai on expat package and she would not bring her husband with her, no way. Every time he visited her, she had to fight off girls in any bar or disco, who would get on him. 20yo girls. I knew a lot of guys, who divorced, or had two families. A 50-60 year old with a hot teenager is a normal site in China
You sound like a trader. Valores Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The secretary in my firm(don’t ask me how I knew > that) earned crazy 17k, but my boss was a rich > 25yo, so he wouldn’t care as long as she would > organize all his life and his wife’s life. > > I had somewhere a survey of salaries in shanghai, > which I thought were a little too low in > comparison with what I had seen, if I find it I > can send it to you. May be then you can find an > updated version from this company ( I don’t > remember the name). They divide it in 3 groups: > expat package, expat local hire, and overseas > Chinese local hire
LMAO @“I’m better than all of you suckers”. so true. purealpha Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > justin88 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Honest question… don’t they speak > Shanghainese > > in Shanghai? > > On the streets, like to the cab guy. Shanghainese > are sorta the “I’m better than all of you suckers” > of China. So if you are a SH cab driver and > someone gets in and speaks Mandarin, or with a > non-shanghainese accent, you know they are some > hick villager from the middle of goat-f!@# > nowhere. > > But for some white guy it is not important, but if > you can speak a little Mandain, just for manners > sake it is nice. > > Anyhow language in the office isn’t an issue, the > educated people he is working with will speak > English. However it is really amazing how few > people outside that office world speak even basic > English. And if they do they won’t let on.
Thanks for all of this extremely helpful information. Just to clarify for everyone, I am an American who is currently living and working for an American bank with a global presence, along with a Shanghai office. I am trying to be transfered within the company to Shanghai and also looking at other banks that are hiring in Shanghai. So I don’t intend to go there until I get a job lined up.
Yeah well once you get over there and get connected line me up bro, great place.
…or “sis” as the case may be. We all just assume an analyst must be a guy.
If you don’t get the expat package, make sure your spouse does. if not, don’t go. Having rent, driver, kids education, taxes, free trips home, etc. done for you is a HUGE bonus and I’m Chinese. If you go, you will probably want to send your kid(s) to Shanghai American School (SAS). While food and rent MAY be Chinese prices (if you go cheap), SAS does not care. Tuition is 20k USD a year minimum + meal plan + books+ trips etc. Next, do you know Chinese taxes? Do you want to pay for someone who does? Probably not, but having someone who does know can save you money and accidental jail time. Plus, will you feel nostalgic or want family visits? Expat packages can/should offer flights. Depending on where you live, for your family, that’s 10k savings a year economy class at least. Just things to consider when trying to bargain a transfer over. Get tuition. Get relocation fees taken care of so you don’t have to worry about the headache. Get driver so you don’t have to eithe learn to drive on the ridiculous streets of Shanghai where right turn lanes are sometimes on the most left side of an 8 lane road (I think I was in Xu Jia Hui area when that happened) or take cabs and possibly get scammed all the time. Get a tax person so you don’t get incacerated (at least say that for bargaining purposes). And obviously, ask for a RAISE 
P.S. and if you are male… the best thing you can do is not hire or work with any women. the mandarin thing is irrelevant.
Thanks paulx441, those were my thoughts as well: if the complete package doesn’t include these things I can’t take a job there. can I realistically expect all of these expat perks considering I have 8-9 years experience at top tier banks in NYC, CFA charterholder, front office structuring experience? These seem like outstanding benefits that I surely wouldn’t want to pay an expat if I could hire a local (assuming I were the hiring manager)…
Can I ask the administrator to delete my email here? Please. I don’t want any more idiots to contact me. Sally, if you are still interested to contact me, please note it down, before (hopefully) it is deleted
Ha, I thought you were referring to me as one of those “idiots” for a second. I have it saved and will be sending a message today. If I were you, I would send a message to the administrator to delete it.
paulx441 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > If you don’t get the expat package, make sure your > spouse does. if not, don’t go. Having rent, > driver, kids education, taxes, free trips home, > etc. done for you is a HUGE bonus and I’m Chinese. > If you go, you will probably want to send your > kid(s) to Shanghai American School (SAS). While > food and rent MAY be Chinese prices (if you go > cheap), SAS does not care. Tuition is 20k USD a > year minimum + meal plan + books+ trips etc. > > Next, do you know Chinese taxes? Do you want to > pay for someone who does? Probably not, but having > someone who does know can save you money and > accidental jail time. > > Plus, will you feel nostalgic or want family > visits? Expat packages can/should offer flights. > Depending on where you live, for your family, > that’s 10k savings a year economy class at least. > > > Just things to consider when trying to bargain a > transfer over. Get tuition. Get relocation fees > taken care of so you don’t have to worry about the > headache. Get driver so you don’t have to eithe > learn to drive on the ridiculous streets of > Shanghai where right turn lanes are sometimes on > the most left side of an 8 lane road (I think I > was in Xu Jia Hui area when that happened) or take > cabs and possibly get scammed all the time. Get a > tax person so you don’t get incacerated (at least > say that for bargaining purposes). And obviously, > ask for a RAISE > > P.S. and if you are male… the best thing you can > do is not hire or work with any women. the > mandarin thing is irrelevant. What exactly do you do? you sound like someone that makes important decisions…
Nah I’m just in Asset Management and do nothing important. I have been offered opportunities in China though without a package and I didn’t take mostly thanks to my brother. My brother is currently in Shanghai (he’s not in finance though) with the package while some of his coworkers do not have a package so I’ve seen how huge of a difference it makes. The flights thing is usually not in the package, but you should be able to at least get relocation and education. Those are the most important ones to get. One for convenience, the other because it’s costly 
Try for driver, but if not you should get some kind of transportation allowance which you will just use on cabs everyday. Shanghai is good in the sense that you can get a card with money on it that will work on most cabs. Depending on your company, it may already have guidelines for what expats get depending on seniority, so you may want to look into that. Maybe at your level (let’s say Level 10) you get rent, education and cab allowance, but the next level up, let’s say 11, you get a driver. Then I would try to get a promotion to that level. Also, depending on how many American expats are over there, your company may already have a tax person. Every company is different, so you should definitely look into what you and the higher level of employees are entitled to. In terms of hiring…having kids and a family might make you less attractive to relocate, but unless there’s an equally qualified single person there, you should be fine. I doubt your company would trust a local in expansionary stages.