So I finally landed an interview, but then...

You do have to get creative. Luckily for me, I am in NYC so it’s relatively easy to sneak out, although it still takes discretion and careful planning and the ability to BS about your where you are going/where you were. I told the prospective employers that I’d like to meet before or after work if possible…usually they will accomodate you as much as they can. It actually would pi*s me off when someone would schedule an interview for like 2 PM on a Wed. I’d have to point out to them, “I have a job, can we schedule this for 7 AM?” The only times I went during the day is if it were a 3rd round or later and I actually really wanted the job.

Indeed for one position I ran through ~8 interviews 2 at a time on different days at 8am to try to keep up appearances, and one session from 5-8pm. Prospective employer shouldn’t have any problem accomodating this if they’re serious. Just keep in mind though that there are generally no secrets in this field; you should assume your current employer will find out you’re looking. Be prepared with your answer if your boss drags you into her office one afternoon to discuss things.

DirtyZ Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > You do have to get creative. Luckily for me, I am > in NYC so it’s relatively easy to sneak out, > although it still takes discretion and careful > planning and the ability to BS about your where > you are going/where you were. I told the > prospective employers that I’d like to meet before > or after work if possible…usually they will > accomodate you as much as they can. It actually > would pi*s me off when someone would schedule an > interview for like 2 PM on a Wed. I’d have to > point out to them, “I have a job, can we schedule > this for 7 AM?” The only times I went during the > day is if it were a 3rd round or later and I > actually really wanted the job. did you feel like you were afforded that level of time flexibility during your search? aren’t there some firms that hire on a pretty regimented cycle and only provide a small window of opportunity to meet with them? or was it the case in every situation that you were able to work something out that was amenable to your existing job commitments?

kkent Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Since when did someone’s word mean nothing > anymore? I think it’s incredibly rude. The only > thing pressing should be the employer keeping its > word. Forgiveable yes. Inexcusable, no. I know you’re in a tough spot, but this is kind of dramatic, don’t you think? Business meetings get rescheduled all the time. Scheduling conflicts happen. You act as if this is unethical behavior.

It is unethical to set up a meeting with somebody and then to cancel that meeting for something else that came up later, unless that thing is extremely important. People, ESPECIALLY people in the job hunt, have to prepare and schedule other interviews and other life happenings around the WORD of the hiring employer. This bank had my meeting scheduled for 5 days and they reschedule a day before after I’ve already prepared and scheduled around their WORD. It is an ethical issue when it becomes pervasive; this is the SECOND time they’ve done it to me. As far as I’m concerned, this company’s word is totally meaningless. Let your yes be yes and your no be no.

While I totally agree on a personal level, kkent, on an institutional level this is many times just not possible (or practical). If they want you to meet a whole team, or need to set aside special space for a case study, or even teleconference room, it becomes a logistical nightmare. Also, deal flow and markets always supercede you. Plus, and I am sure you can appreciate this, you have no idea what kind of personal things are going on with your interviewers (my last gig I had four rounds, two more than intended because the hiring manager lost his father in the interim + the head of the department was locked in a nasty deal that required the head of the bank’s involvement). Hang in there and stay cool. Laterals can take anywhere from 2 to 6 months, depending. Also would like to add that unless you are seriously done with your current to the point of your own detriment, it is always better to have a job when looking. You are negotiating from a point of strength, and no job --> desperation --> stupid choices.

If you need to take days off to make the time and they reschedule it, then I think it is highly unethical. Otherwise, it is tolerable.

Saks, I’ve had plenty of busy companies who have never cancelled on me. A firm that cancels on a person twice in a week has got some real issues. Again, if a cancellation happens, it happens. If cancellations pervade a firm, then there is an issue of trust.

Dude, if you consider this to be such an affront, you should be glad you discovered the unethical nature of this company before taking a job with them. Decline the rescheduled interview and move on. I hope you never take a position that involves face to face client contact. You’d be amazed at how “unethically” clients treat their professional advisors, even hot shot investment bankers. I’m not sure you could contain your outrage. No bank I know of is going to put an entry level candidate interview ahead of a deal. That’s just the way it is. Your needs are secondary to those of the company and its clients. That’s how it is when you’re interviewing, and that’s how it is after you get the job, too.

Well, that’s the problem with this industry–this perverted sense of ethics. Too hell with a person’s word. My time be damned because someone else can’t get their ph****** schedule right. Nobody said it was a “deal.” I was told it was a “scheduling conflict. See you in a week.” Not a, “sorry we totally effed up your schedule and your week–for the 2nd time.”

To think about this in a destiny kind of view, apparently you and this shop is not meant to be, so you two should just move on. :wink:

kkent Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Well, that’s the problem with this industry–this > perverted sense of ethics. Too hell with a > person’s word. My time be damned because someone > else can’t get their ph****** schedule right. > Nobody said it was a “deal.” I was told it was a > “scheduling conflict. See you in a week.” Not a, > “sorry we totally effed up your schedule and your > week–for the 2nd time.” kkent, that’s the nature of finance. this happens to everyone. i’ve been in the industry much longer than you have and conference calls and meetings still get switched around all the time. junior people are pretty low on a firm’s priority list. there’s nothing unethical or unprofessional about this “rescheduling” – sure, it can create an inconvenience, but it’s part of the business. if you’re going to be part of the game, you have to play by the rules.

are you still going to the interview kkent?

Numi - Most firm’s were accomodating to my requests to meet at times either before or after work, but not all were. Also, the higher up the food chain I went, the more I was willing to meet their schedule. Obviously, if I was meeting with the Director of Research or my direct “boss-to-be” I would be more flexible. But if its HR and 1st/2nd rounds, I was pretty adament that they be flexible. In some ways I used this as a screening mechanism - if the job wasn’t that hot and they couldn’t fit my needs then I passed on it. Not everyone is afforded this luxury, but the last year has been so good for job hunting in the city, and my current job wasn’t going anywhere, so really I had more leverage than the typical job hunter who really needed to get that pay day. As someone above mentioned though, you should assume that people are going to sense that you’re looking. It’s very hard to keep it a secret. If asked about it, you can do one of two things: 1) DTD (deny til’ death) 2) Admit that you’ve been approached by some attractive propositions recently, but you’re loyal to the firm. You might want to state that you looked into them b/c the compensation packages being thrown around were so attractive, but you’re not trying to jump ship. Ideally, no one would know that you’re looking, but chances are they will, and you’ll need a decent story. Just my 2cents.

DirtyZ, very interesting. i agree that the hiring environment in NYC has been pretty good in recent months (years?). sure there are smart people on wall street, but how did you feel so certain that someone would find out about your pursuits? is it really someone’s prerogative to question why you’re out of the office and whether or not the true reason is different from the one you proclaim? just wondering if you were actually approached because i would imagine this would probably be a pretty awkward question to ask someone (unless they were your boss or someone that is categorically nosy).

Numi - I think it depends on your office culture. Mine is probably a little more “nosy” than other firms, or at least “nosy” enough to be a pain-in-the-butt. Part of it also has to do with the fact that if you’re a “reliable” worker (meaning you put in your 10-16 hour days every day, month after month), it becomes rather obvious when suddenly you are cutting out of the office quite frequently or showing up slightly late or leaving a little early. Of course, there are plenty of excuses (Dr., Dentist, Family, Water leak in the apt, etc) but it can become painfully obvious when you start pulling these out over a short time frame. Compounding the problem would be if you work in a business casual atmosphere…you can’t come in wearing a suit without setting off alarm bells…so that takes more planning. Additionally, if you’re looking hard, you’ll be getting a lot of calls that you have to return during business hours - finding a place to make these calls from is an additional challenge (one that I think you may have even cited before?). So in a nutshell, switching jobs is a pain because not only do you have to find the job, but you have to conceal as much as possible in the interim. In my case, near the end of my search, I really didn’t care if anyone knew. I still was very discrete, but I knew that my bosses knew…to which my basic (unstated, but implied) response was, “Yes, I’m looking…you know it…I know it. I’ll be discrete, but if you want me to stay you better open those damn purse strings!”