What do you need clarification on?
Gouman Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > numi Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > think about who PE/IB firms recruit on a > pre-MBA > > basis and that should answer your question > about > > whether they care about the CFA designation > > > Can you clarify what you mean by this statment > please? numi has been known to be bearish ragarding the CFA designation. In fact, if there was a market, he would be short as we speak. If I read between the lines, he is basically saying the people skills and relevant experience are way more important than having the CFA designation. Frankly, I agree with him.
numi, i’ve seen two job postings in the last month alone for PE jobs where they specifcially mentioned wanting someone who was willing to enroll in the CFA or already into it. These are both in Calgary, so perhaps their are regional differences, but being an analyst for a PE firm would definitely go hand in hand with a CFA, in my opinion. and DUH!, regarding work experience being more valuable than a CFA charter. People don’t take because they think its more valuable to them than a good skillset on the job, they take it to get their foot in the door.
former trader Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Gouman Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > numi Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > > > think about who PE/IB firms recruit on a > > pre-MBA > > > basis and that should answer your question > > about > > > whether they care about the CFA designation > > > > > > Can you clarify what you mean by this statment > > please? > > numi has been known to be bearish ragarding the > CFA designation. In fact, if there was a market, > he would be short as we speak. If I read between > the lines, he is basically saying the people > skills and relevant experience are way more > important than having the CFA designation. > Frankly, I agree with him. former trader - nice analysis!
jeff_s Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > numi, i’ve seen two job postings in the last month > alone for PE jobs where they specifcially > mentioned wanting someone who was willing to > enroll in the CFA or already into it. These are > both in Calgary, so perhaps their are regional > differences, but being an analyst for a PE firm > would definitely go hand in hand with a CFA, in my > opinion. interesting. i definitely think there are certain aspects of the CFA program that are useful to the knowledge base, but firms care much more about your knowledge and analytical abilities and generally don’t care whether you got it through the CFA program or somewhere else. and when you consider that private equity shops do 85-90% of their hiring directly from banking programs (with a few equity research folks sprinkled in here and there, of course), most of their pre-MBA hires will not have the CFA charter…in fact, most of them won’t even have level I under their belt. that’s because, like you acknowledged, work experience is far more valuable, and while CFA teaches you things that are are useful in theory, you still lack the more practical skills like due diligence and familiarity with the deal process that you would get in a banking program > and DUH!, regarding work experience being more > valuable than a CFA charter. People don’t take > because they think its more valuable to them than > a good skillset on the job, they take it to get > their foot in the door. actually, people would have thought the contrary if they spent too much time on analystforum
I think it goes without saying that experience/relationships are most important - this has been proven many times over as Numi points out. However, sometimes the CFA can come in handy in “proving” that you have the basic analytical base and can serve to differentiate two people of similar work backgrounds. Honestly, what you know means a lot less than what people THINK you know. You’ll find that most “good” finance jobs don’t require incredible intellectual horsepower (and this includes IB and ER) - they require above average intelligence, great stamina, and the ability to get along with your peers and bosses over 12-18 hour days and 5,000 hour years. From what I’ve seen there are plenty of people who are capable of performing in what would be deemed “top tier” jobs…but there are a limited number of slots. To get one of those slots requires a measure of differentiation and sometimes the CFA can provide this. At my bank every single director has an MBA, and about half the CFA. Of those that have both, I think that they value the CFA as highly or more highly than the MBA in terms of the analytical skills that they derived from it. But if you don’t need the CFA to get to that level, good for you…spend the time doing something else.
Hi, you said: " If I read between the lines, he is basically saying the people skills and relevant experience are way more important than having the CFA designation. Frankly, I agree with him." I have moved into banking post-MBA. From a totally unrelated career. Now I’m looking at different departments and trying to get into private banking. When I met the (somewhat pompous) private bankers of our full-service bank they told me that I needed to have a CFA for Portfolio Manager roles. Is this the norm at big banks? I would like to manage relationships with big clients, and as far as the lingo goes, I know a lot of it, plus I thought that for the actual modeling, each private bank has analysts. I just want to be the glue, the guy with the Rolodex and people management skills. Is CFA truly required for talking with some education to rich people? I’m all for experience-over-CFA, but it seems the CFA has become a union card. Or are the private bankers giving me a polite shoo-off?
It’s a credibility card. all else equal, you deal with the person who has education over the guy who doesn’t.
Thanks. I thought so. Although I wonder if another, simpler, faster accreditation could be more credible for a private banker? It’s not like I’d be calculating EBITDAs or crunching valuations myself. Or is the CFA overall generic certification for everyone?
pkiula Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Hi, you said: " If I read between the lines, he is > basically saying the people skills and relevant > experience are way more important than having the > CFA designation. Frankly, I agree with him." > > I have moved into banking post-MBA. From a totally > unrelated career. Now I’m looking at different > departments and trying to get into private > banking. When I met the (somewhat pompous) private > bankers of our full-service bank they told me that > I needed to have a CFA for Portfolio Manager > roles. > > Is this the norm at big banks? I would like to > manage relationships with big clients, and as far > as the lingo goes, I know a lot of it, plus I > thought that for the actual modeling, each private > bank has analysts. I just want to be the glue, the > guy with the Rolodex and people management skills. > Is CFA truly required for talking with some > education to rich people? > > I’m all for experience-over-CFA, but it seems the > CFA has become a union card. Or are the private > bankers giving me a polite shoo-off? We are talking about investment banking here, not private banking
DirtyZ Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I think it goes without saying that > experience/relationships are most important - this > has been proven many times over as Numi points > out. However, sometimes the CFA can come in handy > in “proving” that you have the basic analytical > base and can serve to differentiate two people of > similar work backgrounds. Honestly, what you know > means a lot less than what people THINK you know. > You’ll find that most “good” finance jobs don’t > require incredible intellectual horsepower (and > this includes IB and ER) - they require above > average intelligence, great stamina, and the > ability to get along with your peers and bosses > over 12-18 hour days and 5,000 hour years. From > what I’ve seen there are plenty of people who are > capable of performing in what would be deemed “top > tier” jobs…but there are a limited number of > slots. To get one of those slots requires a > measure of differentiation and sometimes the CFA > can provide this. At my bank every single > director has an MBA, and about half the CFA. Of > those that have both, I think that they value the > CFA as highly or more highly than the MBA in terms > of the analytical skills that they derived from > it. But if you don’t need the CFA to get to that > level, good for you…spend the time doing > something else. I think DirtyZ is pretty much spot on here. Although it’s worth pointing out that what you actually *know* (as opposed to what you’re perceived to know) still does matter on the sell-side (people won’t do business with you if you are a total idiot), oftentimes if you’re good at selling your product and your services, you can actually get by without being the brightest person in the room. I think the intellectual horsepower matters more on the buy-side though, where you’re evaluated on how much money you make as opposed to how many services you can sell…but I guess that is a different question
Look, it say to your employer that “to some degree, I am not an idiot” and expands your overall knowledge base. Those are too important things, but the CFA as the designation has evolved it has become less of the financial catch-all it used to be. It is a useful designation and applicable to a number of areas of finance but it just so happens that in I-Banking it is not as much. It’s really pretty simple if you through the curriculum and compare it to the I-Banking skillset.
Thanks. In that case a Masters of Finance from a top school would be just as useful in signalling that I’m not a total idiot? Anyway, my question was: for private client services type departments, what would be the most useful skills. (I eventually want to be in sales and relationship mgmt, not in number crunching).
yeah i think a MFin is good as well - if its really from a top school. But if you are doing an MFin from a top school, why not an MBA then?