bchadwick Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > CFA definitely makes a difference, even passing > levels. However, you do need more to seal the > deal. > > So, every once in a while someone here writes a > note saying “should I take this job; I really want > to pass the CFA.” That’s a no-brainer, take the > job if it’s relevant to the field and study for > CFA on your own time. > > I don’t think Numi actually meant this, but his > post made it sounds like CFA hardly helps at all. > It does. I noticed an uptick in interest after > passing L1 and an interview turned around 180 > degrees (for the better) when I pointed out that > I’d passed L2 (strange to me that the interviewer > didn’t already know that, since it was right up > there on my resume). > > Today, things are different because the industry > has imploded and is recovering, and there are tons > of experienced and highly qualified people > competing with you. So the effect of CFA vs > having done exactly the same job as your > interviewer wants for their nearest competitor is > lessened. > > None of that means that you shouldn’t make CFA a > high priority if you want to break in. Just don’t > forget the networking and prospecting part along > with it. Not a knock to Numi, but he problably feels the CFA is not that helpful for two reasons 1) he was unsuccessful with the CFA 2) he is extremely successful without the CFA. He has gotten jobs those of us won’t even get an interview for w/ or w/o the CFA. Not to mention his database of knowledge. the CFA is not a means to an end. Its in the process of investment management. whether you’re taking the exam or going through financials and models on your own, you will have to learn most of the material anyways. most people think after the CFA is done, then its over. No, its just the beginning of a dream or a nightmare. take the first level and see how much you like it. then ask yourself i you want to spend your career doing almoste exactly what it is that you’re studying for.
I know 2 MBAs who graduated last year and are still unemployed , 1 from Tuck and the other from Fuqua. There are no guarantees attached with any degree/charter/credential. You have to do it all and then hope for the best.
CFA is not a golden ticket to a dream buy-side job where you can pull in 500k. But once you are working on the buy-side a CFA is a must have at big institutional firm (PIMCO, Fidelity, American, T.Rowe, etc) especially if you have not built up a reputation. However it is darn well worthless at hedge funds or private equity. If you didn’t get recruited out of college or have a 4.0 in CS from MIT then your chances of getting a solid buy-side job is slim. I would study for the CFA and apply for jobs at the same time.
Absolutely not. But I feel any reasons given will fall on deaf ears, anecdotal statistics point to over 99% of candidates pursuing the designation to work in “something something arbitrage” or “being an investment banker wearing Valentino ties”…actual quote heard out of the first half. (similar endeavors include masters in finance degrees at a non-top 5 US school). Why do I do it? I genuinely like the material (except maybe ethics) and I feel it fills in missing gaps from undergrad.
FrankArabia wrote: “Not a knock to Numi, but he problably feels the CFA is not that helpful for two reasons 1) he was unsuccessful with the CFA 2) he is extremely successful without the CFA. He has gotten jobs those of us won’t even get an interview for w/ or w/o the CFA. Not to mention his database of knowledge. the CFA is not a means to an end. Its in the process of investment management. whether you’re taking the exam or going through financials and models on your own, you will have to learn most of the material anyways. most people think after the CFA is done, then its over. No, its just the beginning of a dream or a nightmare. take the first level and see how much you like it. then ask yourself i you want to spend your career doing almoste exactly what it is that you’re studying for.” I think this is prudent advice from FrankArabia. As for my personal reasons for my not thinking the CFA is that helpful, I think that there may be some validity in the two points that you referenced, but mostly it’s because I genuinely believe, and have seen from my own experience as well as the experiences of my peers/friends, that there are a number of ways to get into finance other than taking the CFA exams. Networking is by far the most powerful tool, and one that becomes increasingly important at senior levels. I believe that those people that disagree with this statement may not have spent enough time in the working world, or just aren’t networking with the right people or with the right methodology. For the most part, great jobs are attained through connections. There are certain advantages to networking and building your professional database that aren’t afforded by the CFA exam. First of all, passing exams don’t get people jobs; people get people jobs. Whether you’re networking, cold-calling, or interviewing, every one of these processes involves human interaction. Most people don’t realize just how mediocre they are at interviewing or networking because they’ve never been told that they are. Plus, these people spend so much of their time studying when in fact they should be building out their social skills and interactive confidence. Secondly, engaging with other people offers you tremendous topical relevance that the CFA exams don’t provide. Sure, maybe the CFAI modified their curriculum to include more private equity and credit stuff from 2007 onward, but who really cares about that? What better way would there be to learn about exactly what’s going on in an industry than to pick up the phone and call someone that works there? What better way is there to get your questions answered, particularly those that pertain to your personal situation? Lastly, what better way is there to convince someone that you *really* want to do finance – would it be by showing through your knowledge of current events and the passion your voice emotes, or by telling someone you just passed a multiple choice exam? You decide. Anyway, at the end of the day, I actually agree with FrankArabia, bchadwick, and all others that ascribe value to the CFA exam. I am sure there is a lot of value to be derived from the program, and I learned a lot going through it myself. Yes, it’s true that I only passed Level I, and I’m not so arrogant to say that I would have been able to pass Levels II and III because I know how challenging they are. However, as soon as I realized that my upward mobility and desire to transition to private equity and get into business school could be enhanced through polishing my resume and communication skills and networking with the right people, I decided to focus my efforts on those areas instead of on studying for exams. That was a personal decision I made, but it is what turned out to be the best for myself. My main point when I first read this thread was that that people should focus more on professional development (i.e. doing well at work, networking with the right people) because the incremental benefits are far greater than passing the CFA exams alone. That’s my opinion and that’s what I’ve seen as an experienced finance professional. I’m proud when people e-mail me and tell me about the offers they got in investment banking and equity research by reading my posts on this forum. It means that I’e managed to improve the livelihood of someone else, and it also means that what I say has great credibility. In an ideal world, we could all be great networkers and CFA charterholders, but there are a finite number of hours in a day and the advice that I provide is based on what I personally know best. I’m sure some others will continue to disagree with me about how valuable the CFA is, and there’s probably something antithetic about my stating otherwise on a website called “Analyst Forum.” However, if I just kept pounding the table about how great the CFA program was, would I really be adding new insights to this forum? Or do people here enjoy reading my posts because I bring firsthand industry perspectives minus the sugarcoating, while hopefully having something unique to say? I hope it’s because I bring differentiable perspectives and I really appreciate all the kind feedback that people give me for my posts. Positive feedback goes a long way for me, because at the end of the day, I’m really just an everyday guy trying to climb up the corporate ladder like everyone else here. At the same time, my opinion is just one person’s opinion, and hopefully the original poster will take into account the thoughtful replies that many others have written here.
Great post. Just to add from my experience you should really like the CFA material to get the CFA. If you just want to make money then your best bet is to know how to deal with people; the people with the money and hire a CFA to manage the money. Money management can be inexpensive and with all the CFA’s out there … hiring a CFA to do the work for you is another option. Plus you can be a Portfoilio manager without a CFA. I just had a conversation yesterday with a Charterholder where I would be able “the term they used” was “rent” a CFA for $3k a month on a temporary basis quite cheap when you think of it. If I had $100 million AUM at say 1% or 1.5% that is $1.5 million even if I had to pay the CFA $100k heck give me two and I’m still in ok shape but I need the money to manage and that comes from people or you have to deal with people to get it.
Per Numi’s post, i think he made a good choice dropping out of the CFA program on his current career path. I get to read a lot of fund marketing materials and while I do see some CFAs on the firm’s investment professionals list it seems like pedigree and prior work experience are the most important items. If he did want to stay in ER and would like to jump to the buy-side than maybe he should of pass the CFA before going to bschool.