Wow G really manned up after taking this new job. What are they putting in the water cooler?
There’s nothing to explain. Palantir was a (fairly) normal contributor to AF for years, then Purealpha came along and Palantir decided to jump on his coattails. Now they’re engaged in a pseudo-liberal circlejerk (though when it’s only two people it’s more like they’re just gay for each other). They get each other off by trolling the WC.
Since neither are smart enough to have a reasonable debate, they simply throw out comments without substance to feel self-important. Either we ignore the trolls entirely, the moderators decide to moderate, or a system gets put in place that allows AFers to self-moderate. Until some combination of the above happens, the downward spiral of the WC will continue.
tl;dr - PA and Palantir are warts that need to be frozen off of AF before they spread. I envy anyone that’s never met these clowns.
This “monkey” is absolutely correct on the double taxation of dividends. His simple example was a good one. Anyone who denies it should have their charter revoked.
I admit that I was skimming this and perhaps didn’t see the original attack. I will take a closer look to see how it started.
…Ok, if you mean “You’re an idiot.” Is the trigger that justified your reaction, I don’t agree. You’re free to call him an idiot back, but that other stuff was over the line.
What the hell happened here? Did someone make fun of Jason Witten?
LOL, cmon Palantir is obviously one of the smartest people on here (tied only with BChad and myself). We three also happen to be members of the rarely seen internet breed capable of constructing basic sentences , complete with punctuation, and demonstrating rational/reasonable analysis.
I’m sure the B-team would like to ban the A-team so they feel better about themselves, but it wouldn’t be much of a forum after that. 
the problem with this math is that a meaningful percentage of corporate profits are not taxed at 35% and that corporations take advantage of variations in corporate tax rates across the planet. further, corporations almost never realize capital gains, rather it is the person who owns the shares who realize the capital gains, at a 15% tax rate at worst. even further, these capital gains accumulated untaxed for decades before ever being taxed.
so the typical scenario (apple for example) is 1 - [(1-.25) * (1-.15)] = 36%. and this 36% isn’t realized in year one. ~25% is realized annually while the 15% is delayed for decades. compare this to 40% minimum for high earnings humans. personal income taxes should include no subsidy for income from dormant capital. at the very least, the combined tax rate for a corporation should match the highest personal income tax bracket. further carried interest and long-term capital gains should not go unrealized forever. why do we subsidize capital when there is so much of it that it’s basically free!
Noted. Trolled again. I need to learn to resist, but there really are people this dumb, watch msnbc if you have doubts, just not too many with a charter.
Back on topic…
"Of course, we won’t know for sure who won until the polls come in.”
HAHAHA, amazingly well done!
“Should”…interesting. According to you? I don’t think gains or income should be taxed at all. Only commerce should be taxed. Stop the class warfare and implement an efficient and stable revenue generation scheme. Social agendas don’t need to be promoted using the IRS. Non-tax related subsidies and handouts can be used. Savings should be encouraged as much as possible to build a shock absorber for economic growth. Our current scheme adds high order volatility. Sets us up for large shocks, rather than allowing many healthy small bumps.
And if you’re going to talk about tax specifics, get your facts right. Doesn’t do much for your ethos to be wrong while speaking authoritatively.
“Taxpayers earning income above certain thresholds ($200,000 for singles, $250,000 for married couples filing jointly) pay an additional 3.8% tax on all investment income. Therefore, the top federal tax rate on long-term capital gains is 23.8%.”
But at least a long AF tradition continues. That is posters opining on topics of which they know very little.
You’re entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts.
Fact: Beginning at $75k, corporate tax rates are 34%, then they go up from there.
Fact: The highest individual tax rate is 43.4% (39.6% + 3.8%) for ordinary income, and 23.8% (20% + 3.8%) for investment income, including dividends and capital gains.
Fact: Corporate income is, by definition, realized yearly, and tax is paid accordingly.
Fact: Long-term capital gains are not unrealized forever. At worst, they are embedded in the decedent’s taxable estate. The estate tax rate begins at 18% and escalates very quickly to 40%. And this is a tax on total assets, not only on gains. (Note that this is an estate tax and not an income tax, but the point is made–a person has to pay tax on their capital at some point.)
yes sorry. used the wrong cap gains rate. using that, the appropriate rate on corporations is ~43% after double taxation versus ~44% for personal. my point stands that corporations and their owners are not disadvantaged in any way. further, the delay in realizing ~24% of this corporate tax can be delayed almost indefinitely. of course not forever, but say 50 years and 50 years is basically forever considering it’s 2/3rds of a lifetime. if you’re from a rich family and you get $10 million put in trust for you when you’re 1, the delay of cap gains for 80+ years will have a meaningful impact. same goes if you’re 18 and you get 60 years of capital gains delays.
the only reason i say “should” is because capital should not have an advantage over people. i’m not pro labour, i’m pro equality.
further, my example only really works for typical profitable blue chip companies. many newer companies (e.g. AMZN, CRM, any SaaS stock) have not paid any income tax at all and yet the capital gains for the owners is in the billions. since they develop value through R&D rather than income to shareholders, they bypass the first layer of income taxes. so the tax rate related to the companies that Jeff Bezos, Marc Benioff and many others have created is actually only their capital gains tax rate, so 23.8% but this 23.8% can be delayed for their lifetime. this is the great risk to our nations wrt to income inequality.
No need to tax capital or labor. Tax everyone by taxing commerce. The idea that the two pizza shops with equal revenue can have completely different tax obligations is patently absurd. Allows for fraud and the system to be played, as corporations and the wealthy do so well. Not their fault. The agents have a fiduciary obligation to play by the rules and minimize the tax burden. The fault lies in the scheme. Abolish it and start over. This time, drop the class warfare and have creating an efficient scheme be the driving force. Max revenue generation for given drag.
Getting back to the basics…
People are taxed on their revenue, corporations on their profits, though both are called income.
I get $100 as salary, I buy $100 worth of something from bchad, he buys $100 something from Greenie and so on… all of us get taxed $25 each at the end of the year. If that was bchad’s and my only income, the IRS would put us in jail (eventually.)
Now assume I incorporate as a corporation and so do bchad and Greenie. My corporation earned $100 somewhere and gave it to BChad Inc for services rendered, and BChad Inc gives it to Greenie Inc; neither of us owes any tax; only Greenie owes $25.
How is this not different treatment? If you have a 0 corporate tax, the richers could just incorporate and spend money wildly. (I realize there has to be some tax law to catch this but that’s much harder for the government to prove than looking at a W-2 or 1099.)
valid point, if corps are people my friend could you imagine them being taxed like one? Bet ole Mitt would change his tune then
So you’re saying that you have to be a corporation to write off business expenses?
Did you get your legal advice from Robert Kiyosaki?
Where did I say business expenses? Don’t put words in my mouth.
I am talking about personal (non-deductible) expenses. For an individual, they don’t matter; your tax is independent of them.
For a C-corporation, you could convert some or most of them into business expenses. Yes, IRS can catch it. But I am sure there are enough loopholes that enforcement is far tougher than looking at someone’s W-2 or 1099. Why would someone pay ~40% marginal tax when they could convert to a C-corp and pay, say, 12% as in Ireland? Right now it is 35% so not that much of a difference.
Did y’all see these Trump had a bad mic, it’s on all the network websites. CNN, NPR, the ones that support crooked Hillary to the core!!!