^
Ha Ha, Agreed. Was just surfing the net and there aren’t many brazilian players who are skillfull that come to mind. What happened man?
They could’ve taken Firmino and Coutinho though. And what happened to that dude Ganso?
Coutinho doesn’t merit a Brazil call on performance (IMO), and doesn’t fit into this side tactically. Ganso’s talent has faded unfortunately.
I think 2002 mopped the floor with the yesteryear teams, but that’s a difference in point of view that groups of friends here can never reconcile - a lot of people like the oldest teams better as well.
I don’t think the emphasis on counterattacking created the lack of “joga bonito” players - I think the lack of “joga bonito” players created the emphasis on counterattacking. Most players here still learn how to play on the streets - it’s hard to turn a creative player into a follow the rules counterattacker since by 16 they already have a developed style.
What does happen from time to time is see “joga bonito” players wasted by coaches. Djalminha was left out of a WC because he headbutted his club coach. Romario was out of 2002 because of personal issues with Scolari (scolari would get hell if he lost that WC because of that). Alex was one of the best midfielders I’ve seen and got left out of WC after WC for reasons still unknown to me. So I would agree with you that the style chosen by coaches is one of less independence and, in a way, less talent, but I still think that players make the team more often than not.
Yet, 98 had a very creative offense, especially in the years before the World Cup - Giovani, Ronaldo, Romario and Ronaldo with Denilson (who was awesome for a period) in bench (Romario got injured before the WC). We’ve talked about 2002. 2006 gets a lot of hate to this day, but it was an awesome team for years, destroyed the Confed Cup even with Ronaldo injured, and ended up losing a tough match in a WC against Zidane being brilliant.
Then Dunga killed soccer…
I think Ganso is talented, but he gets injured too often. He has been playing very well for a few weeks now. Maybe he will be a big player someday. A lot of people thought he was more talented than Neymar when they were both starting at Santos.
I rate the 2002 team highly for sure, but I think you’ll agree it was a different beast from the old school teams.
I disagree on the cause vs effect. I think what’s really important is what coaches look for in players at all levels of the game. For example, surely England has plenty of young skilled players as Spain, but who does a better job of finding and developing them in the formal footballing environment? In my opinion, Brazilian coaches are looking for athletes, and want to play to that style. Think of the regular American refrain you’ll hear on soccer forums - “If our best athletes played soccer we’d rule the world” - I think Brazil has been consciously trying to implement that.
Is this going to descend back into a debate on the definition of the word ‘creative’ ?
anyway, check out this article on intrinisic values vs market values of players.
http://www.football-observatory.com/New-edition-of-the-CIES-Football-Observatory
I hope a human capital essay question comes up on saturday…
Maybe the approach you mentioned is gradually becoming more of a fact. I just don’t think it played a big role in strong national squads such as 2002. Ronaldo was clearly a soon-to-be world level player at 16 and so was Ronaldinho at 17 or Romario at 18/19 - their height and straight-line speed were barely relevant once anybody saw what they could do. You can find videos of Ronaldo/Ronaldinho/Neymar playing “futebol de salao” as little kids and mesmerizing everybody. Today Neymar is differentiated, even though not on the same level - if we had other Ronaldinhos playing on the streets I’m convinced they would still make it to the top.
I think even today Brazil’s way of talent finding is still very random, which is actually a good thing if they’re loking for the best “athletes” (as in fast and strong). Some of the best players in history didn’t have the faster/stronger genetics (Messi for one) and some didn’t even behave like athletes (Romario used to skip practice more often than not). Of course, for kids that are not clearly outstanding, athleticism may become a key decisive point, but then again most rejected kids were not clearly outstanding and wouldn’t be able to do a proper “joga bonito” anyway.
I agree 2002 was different, but different as in “better”. I don’t think the style played by Garrincha and the like could prosper in modern soccer - there is too little space. The only way to be a genious now is to be a very quick genious. We can see what current players are capable of in those charitable Ronaldo x Zidane games - without very fast and strong defenses, they have time to think and play around. At the risk of infuriating some old timers, I think soccer in the 50s and 60s was a little bit like that.
As for ´82, they’re widely celebrated because they reached a good form during a World Cup (which is a timing issue as well), but the 2006 team, for instance, was getting similar praise just a year early (the press would call the 2005 attack “the magic square”). 2006 also has much better players (opinion, but Brazil had to bench players such as Juninho because there was nowhere to put them on). It’s just that a lot of people thought losing 3-2 to Paolo Rossi was bad luck and losing 1-0 to Zidane was incompetence.
^
Are you in Brazil? Do you think we can buy tickets in black? How much do you estimate a round of 16/ QF ticket to be?
Emre Can a good pickup for Liverpool. Hopefully he can replace Gerrard this season.
I’m in Brazil. I’m not well informed about ways to hunt a ticket. You probably can buy them, but I’m not sure how easy it is to find the right guys. Based on past brazilian tournaments, they’ll most likely be closer to the stadiums in game days. I heard couple thousand a piece, but this is gossip. Maybe most foreigners will be organized people who bought in advance and the scalpers may get stuck with black market tickets, which would make them cheaper.
If you want to come you gotta be ready for some adventures. Brazil is huge, stadiums are all over the place and public transportation sucks. I think it’s much easier to travel from anywhere in Europe to anywhere in Europe (or maybe anywhere in US to anywhere in Europe) than from Porto Alegre to Manaus, so choose what you want to see and plan accordingly.
If any of you guys come and pass by Sao Paulo, drop me a note and we can have lunch or whatever.
Come to think of it, I actually think that couple thousand comment may be way too high. FIFA was still selling tickets this week (for a little over 100 dollars). I don’t think the scalpers will have as many leverage as they think, but my guesses are as good as yours. I’ll ask more informed friends and get back to you if I hear any novelty ways to find tickets.
Heading closer. I think the tournament will get of to a very slow start though with teams getting used to the temperatures. The opening game generally is a low scoring one apart from Germany 06.
Reus out is a massive blow to the Germans, They don’t look half as potent now. Portugal are a blunt team with all the goals coming from Ronaldo. Wouldn’t be surprised if one of them go out in the group stage.
Italy seem to be flying under the radar and they always perform best when the chips are stacked against them.
The adverts coming thick and fast now, Nike raising again, Risk everything.
I feel like Qatar is being made a target precisely because it is politically weak - which World Cup bid hasn’t involved large scale bribery and corruption? Do people really think the Russian bid was clean?
http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/power-corruption-and-lies-fifa-beginning-end-sepp-blatter
I disagree with the article though, I think this puts Blatter in a stronger position as he can eliminate another rival in Platini, and hand the World Cup to his favored candidate - the US. Bonus points if Platini is implicated in the bribery scandal.
Yeah. Getting excited now. I’d love to be there in person.
On Qatar - if it was just a corrupt bid I don’t think it would be mentioned. The real issue is having to play it in the winter because it’s so hot. Having 1,000 workers die through abuse/neglect isn’t helping their case much either.
Cesc to Chelsea.
So basically Chelsea is taking Atletico Madrid’s two best players in Diego Costa and Courtois, and they’re getting Cesc, just your average world class attacking midfielder…have fun ManU!
I do think it is odd though as I never really saw Cesc as a Mourinho-type player, I felt he should go for someone like Khedira or Javi Martinez.
Yeah. Saw that Cesc is off to Chelsea. I’m an Arsenal fan so i’m throwing him on the Clichy, Nasri et all list.
Great signing for Chelsea. Thet’ve now replaced Etoo with Costa and Lampard with Fabregas with the cost largely covered by PSG paying €50 million for their 3rd choice centre half. Not a bad transfer window so far!
Yep, the Blues seem to build a good team for the next season. Bremen will host Chelsea in the prep for next season in a friendly, but unfortunately it´s on my first day of vacation…
Courtois was never Athletico Madrid player