Nice writeup. I am also very concerned about the rise of Islamic Fundamentalism. It has been, for the most part, ignored. Especially in Europe, where talking about this is considered racist. (I don’t really know which race muslims are, but please let me know when you find out.) I def. see increasing problems in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Iraq… don’t get me started. We should’ve just been in Afghanistan the whole time and put more pressure on Pakistan.
needhelp Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I have a solution to all your problems: stop being > the world’s policeman. Stop trying to interfere in > others’ affairs. Build your own home. Sit down > with people you have disagreements with and > resolve and compromise. Stop bullying other > nations. > That would be good but it only has a little to do with our problems. In particular, the most “policeman” we’ve been in recent memory is Somalia and that was awhile ago. > As someone who has traveled around quite a bit, I > can tell you this honestly and sincerely that it > baffles me how clueless Americans are. Our > concepts of terrorism, democracy and freedom are > created by us, for our convenience. Its not just > the economy thats a bubble. We live in a bubble > society. Always good to have broad-brushed stereotypes to back up your argument.
JoeyDVivre Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > needhelp Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I have a solution to all your problems: stop > being > > the world’s policeman. Stop trying to interfere > in > > others’ affairs. Build your own home. Sit down > > with people you have disagreements with and > > resolve and compromise. Stop bullying other > > nations. > > > That would be good but it only has a little to do > with our problems. In particular, the most > “policeman” we’ve been in recent memory is Somalia > and that was awhile ago. > > > As someone who has traveled around quite a bit, > I > > can tell you this honestly and sincerely that > it > > baffles me how clueless Americans are. Our > > concepts of terrorism, democracy and freedom > are > > created by us, for our convenience. Its not > just > > the economy thats a bubble. We live in a bubble > > society. > > Always good to have broad-brushed stereotypes to > back up your argument. I rest my case.
that hurts to read.
needhelp Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I have a solution to all your problems: stop being > the world’s policeman. Stop trying to interfere in > others’ affairs. Build your own home. Sit down > with people you have disagreements with and > resolve and compromise. Stop bullying other > nations. > > As someone who has traveled around quite a bit, I > can tell you this honestly and sincerely that it > baffles me how clueless Americans are. Our > concepts of terrorism, democracy and freedom are > created by us, for our convenience. Its not just > the economy thats a bubble. We live in a bubble > society. I have traveled around quite a bit as well, I can understand the perspective that many americans live in a bubble, but these are little bubbles they they created themselves by not venturing out of their city, state or country. I don’t think it is a bubble stretching border to border, as many leaders, senators, representatives or whoever it may be ventures out of the country to deal with issues when appropriate. How are these concepts of terrorism, democracy and freedom created by us for convenience? It wasn’t convenient for us to branch off of England for freedom, the war on terror is costing us a ghastly amount of money, and I think our democracy system is doing pretty well. What is convenient about any of these things? Maybe I am just thinking of these terms in another way.
Quite frankly, regarding the convenience of the war on terror - I don’t think my friend Russ thought it was convenient when he got shot in the jaw by a sniper, my friend Brian when he got both his legs blown off by an explosive under his humvee, or when my other buddy Tin got his kneecap shattered by a sniper bullet. My brother went to fight last year for six months and I really take any stabs at freedom or terror by people sitting comfortably in their office chair reading the news as personal. And it definitely shows how inconvenient it is for my friends to go out their and put their lives on the line for someone to make feeble comments about ‘how americans do things because it is convenient’.
JoeyDVivre Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > needhelp Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I have a solution to all your problems: stop > being > > the world’s policeman. Stop trying to interfere > in > > others’ affairs. Build your own home. Sit down > > with people you have disagreements with and > > resolve and compromise. Stop bullying other > > nations. > > > That would be good but it only has a little to do > with our problems. In particular, the most > “policeman” we’ve been in recent memory is Somalia > and that was awhile ago. > I would call the Bush administration pushing for upgrade of F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan as “being the world’s policeman”. USA is paying for 474 mil of an 891 mil deal here. The wars in Iraq (200 Billion budgeted for that in 2008) also falls under that category in most of the developing world. (FYI: Most people who live in India think of Saddam as “poor Saddam, persecuted by Bush”. Not saying, i agree with that, but that’s just how America is peceived.)
needhelp, What case do you have to rest? You had an amorphous general argument supported by amorphous general points.
Maybe you are taking this a little too personally. Needhelp and probably everyone on AF wishes that Russ, Brian, and Tin were unharmed and we hope that their sacrifice will ultimately lead to peace and security.
In my opinion, the core problem behind many problems may stem from overpopulation. I read Ehrlich’s “Population Bomb” and that puts a lot of things into perspective. (the book is somewhat alarmist, I admit)
sv102307 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > JoeyDVivre Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > needhelp Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > I have a solution to all your problems: stop > > being > > > the world’s policeman. Stop trying to > interfere > > in > > > others’ affairs. Build your own home. Sit > down > > > with people you have disagreements with and > > > resolve and compromise. Stop bullying other > > > nations. > > > > > That would be good but it only has a little to > do > > with our problems. In particular, the most > > “policeman” we’ve been in recent memory is > Somalia > > and that was awhile ago. > > > I would call the Bush administration pushing for > upgrade of F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan as “being > the world’s policeman”. USA is paying for 474 mil > of an 891 mil deal here. The wars in Iraq (200 > Billion budgeted for that in 2008) also falls > under that category in most of the developing > world. > > (FYI: Most people who live in India think of > Saddam as “poor Saddam, persecuted by Bush”. Not > saying, i agree with that, but that’s just how > America is peceived.) It’s a semantic point. The F-16’s to Pakistan weren’t meant as a threat to India but as a quid pro quo for letting us use their country as a base to drop daisycutters on Tora Bora or some other crazy thing. F-16’s are getting a little creaky anyway. Imagine if we could sell them a bunch of 1974 AMC Gremlins. We’d be fools not to do it, right?
Yeah - sorry guys. Thanks JDV. I tend to take that stuff personally - its all good. No worries, needhelp - was just trying to understand.
projectplatnyc, Best wishes to you friends: Russ, Brian, and Tin. We can never pay them enough for ensuring our peace, freedom, and security.
CFABLACKBELT Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Nice writeup. I am also very concerned about the > rise of Islamic Fundamentalism. It has been, for > the most part, ignored. Especially in Europe, > where talking about this is considered racist. (I > don’t really know which race muslims are, but > please let me know when you find out.) > > I def. see increasing problems in Pakistan and > Afghanistan. Iraq… don’t get me started. We > should’ve just been in Afghanistan the whole time > and put more pressure on Pakistan. I think Egypt is the next ticking time bomb. For the last quarter century, the US has supported a dictator who is a moderate. He is over 80 years old now. If there are free elections in Egypt, the Islamic fundamentalist Muslim Brothers would win in a landslide. Obviously, the US will try everything in its power to avoid free elections in Egypt, and try to install a western friendly leader once Mubarek dies. Can it work this time around without the population rising?
Egypt does not have much of oil is my understanding, so it won’t matter much…just like Pakistan.
Yeah, but Pakistan has the bomb. Islamic Fundamentalists mixed with Nuclear Weapons is a disturbing thought.
Nice writeup. What do you think of China? Is it going to have a hard or soft landing?
eric23 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Yeah, but Pakistan has the bomb. Islamic > Fundamentalists mixed with Nuclear Weapons is a > disturbing thought. Agreed, though I think Palin with command of nukes would be equally frightening.
projectplatnyc Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > How are these concepts of terrorism, democracy and > freedom created by us for convenience? It wasn’t > convenient for us to branch off of England for > freedom, Come on, that was about money. Rich colonists didn’t want to pay taxes to the mother country so they rebelled under the banner of “freedom”. > the war on terror is costing us a ghastly > amount of money, It’s not convenient to fight the war, unless of course you are an unpopular president who needs to wrap himself in a flag so that otherwise sensible people become blinded by patriotism. A president who had unfinished family business in an area unrelated to terrorism, and believed that he could *impose* democracy on a country (the stupidest thing I ever heard). > and I think our democracy system > is doing pretty well. Apart from electing village idiots. Still better that all the other alternatives though. > I really take any stabs at freedom or terror by people sitting comfortably in their office > chair reading the news as personal. So it’s only possible to have a valid view on a war (that has nothing to do with creating “freedom” or stopping “terror”) if you first fight in this war in which you don’t believe? It’s a crying shame your friends got hurt, but saying it is for “freedom” just disguises the crime that was wrought upon them. Ultimately, American hegemony hasn’t been too bad - definitely better than the Russian/German/Chinese alternatives (probably not quite as good the British though ;)).
When Americans do understand their problems it will be too late by then. To me all the events/problems stated above by Joey et al point more to social correction. American bullying had gone too far too much and it needs to be corrected. There are no terrorists in the world there are only masters and vassals … What looks fair to goose seems foul to gander