Why, oh why???

[Schopenhauer]

@Codtrawler87

@Schopenhauer

@Codtrawler87

@Schopenhauer

Can’t it just be that those who made fun of your accents were a-sholes too? Why does it have to be that you need to stoop down their level instead of disliking the injustice done to you.

What do you mean by stooping down to their level? I explained what I’ve seen, I wasn’t calling anyone anything. I believe you’re missing my point here. I’m pointing to the obvious double standards at play and the hidden racist biases of those who claim that they’re not racist. The fact that everyone thinks that making fun of a nothern european is OK while getting all worked up when a jamaican is made fun of, shows that these people believe that jamaicans and northern europeans should be treated differently.

like is said, context is relevant.

Instead of talking about blackface, you talk about the mean things said about you while you were a kid and lamenting that you couldn’t say mean things back.

So I could take 3 things from it:

1. You wanna say mean things back

2. You’re using your personal experiences with racism to show that you’re empathetic to the plight of minorities

3. You’re pointing out a double standard for no reason and don’t have any purpose pointing it out and the convo stops there. Aka the ‘I’m not racist, im just quoting a statistic’ defense

we all get that you pointed out the double standard, but why would you do that in a thread about black face. You’re not talking about a black man in white-face, just random racism.

Arguing with you is pointless. You’re trying to make a point by putting words in my mouth. Your point #1 and #2 above are completely a result of your own imagination or lack of reading comprehension. I wanted to say mean things back? To who? Nowhere in my comment did I say anything like that.

Your point #3 about doubles standards not having anything to do with blackface is pretty odd, given that Greenie started the thread by pointing out some of the double standards at play.

And instead of telling me why you added your comment about your high school experiences you tell me that I’m wrong. I’m giving you the option, and you choose to say I’m putting words in your mouth instead of making your point.

If all you wanted to add is how white people are the real victims in race relations because you got insulted in high school and haven’t gotten over it, I’ll note your useful addition.

[Black_Swan]

Poops, I think you completely misunderstood what he wrote and his point. To the point that I’m not sure how you got what you did from what he wrote.

[Malee]

@Codtrawler87

@Schopenhauer

@Greenman72

Why is it that a man can dress like a woman, wear makeup and dresses, and not only is it acceptable, but even praised as heroic?

Yet wearing “blackface” (even if it was 18 years ago) makes you a racist?

.

Context is relevant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minstrel_show

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_show

@Greenman72

Why can you self-identify your gender, but not self-identify race?

So this is wear I probably diverge with most of my liberal counterparts. There’s a difference between blackface, which has been historically racist, and something like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Dolezal. (I’m guessing you’re referring to the former, since cases like Dolezal are super rare) There’s a difference between putting shoe-polish on your face and taking hormone-replacement therapy for years on end and surgically changing your genitals.

In some situations context is relevant. Blackface is one of them. But in some situations, it is blatant that the people who cry racism are in fact racist themselves, or at least deem some qualities of other people undesirable.

A story from my high school days: I come from nothern europe, I look like a northern European (I could be in a Viking movie) and when I moved to the US at the age of 16, I had a very strong northern european accent. At my high school, my accent and appearance became the butt of jokes, even some of the teachers made fun of me. I wasn’t offended, I even thought that it was pretty funny. At the same time, there was a bunch of korean and jamaican students who also looked and talked different than the local kids. Then one day someone made fun of their appearance, accent and food (and they thought it was funny too), just like I was made fun of, and all hell broke loose and the jokesters almost got expelled for racism. So basically it was ok to make fun of a northern european while koreans and jamaicans were to be left out of "racist’’ jokes because koreans and jamaicans were viewed to be somehow inferior to europeans.

Cod your original point is a valid one, most people find discrimination in others’ behaviors but never their own,like your Nordic homie in Hamlet, the lady doth protest too much. But your high school story is a bit of a strawman. Just because there were some knuckleheads at your school who bullied you or treated you badly don’t mean everyone believes korean or blacks were inferior or whatever. High school is a weird place, weaklings glom together to pick on or exclude those who can’t or won’t defend themselves…the science nerd, gay kid, fat kid, the foreign kid who has an accent…whatever. For a couple of years in high school you experienced first hand what these blacks and asians will experience in big and small ways their whole lives.

[Codtrawler87]

@Malee

@Codtrawler87

@Schopenhauer

@Greenman72

Why is it that a man can dress like a woman, wear makeup and dresses, and not only is it acceptable, but even praised as heroic?

Yet wearing “blackface” (even if it was 18 years ago) makes you a racist?

.

Context is relevant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minstrel_show

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_show

@Greenman72

Why can you self-identify your gender, but not self-identify race?

So this is wear I probably diverge with most of my liberal counterparts. There’s a difference between blackface, which has been historically racist, and something like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Dolezal. (I’m guessing you’re referring to the former, since cases like Dolezal are super rare) There’s a difference between putting shoe-polish on your face and taking hormone-replacement therapy for years on end and surgically changing your genitals.

In some situations context is relevant. Blackface is one of them. But in some situations, it is blatant that the people who cry racism are in fact racist themselves, or at least deem some qualities of other people undesirable.

A story from my high school days: I come from nothern europe, I look like a northern European (I could be in a Viking movie) and when I moved to the US at the age of 16, I had a very strong northern european accent. At my high school, my accent and appearance became the butt of jokes, even some of the teachers made fun of me. I wasn’t offended, I even thought that it was pretty funny. At the same time, there was a bunch of korean and jamaican students who also looked and talked different than the local kids. Then one day someone made fun of their appearance, accent and food (and they thought it was funny too), just like I was made fun of, and all hell broke loose and the jokesters almost got expelled for racism. So basically it was ok to make fun of a northern european while koreans and jamaicans were to be left out of "racist’’ jokes because koreans and jamaicans were viewed to be somehow inferior to europeans.

Cod your original point is a valid one, most people find discrimination in others’ behaviors but never their own,like your Nordic homie in Hamlet, the lady doth protest too much. But your high school story is a bit of a strawman. Just because there were some knuckleheads at your school who bullied you or treated you badly don’t mean everyone believes korean or blacks were inferior or whatever. High school is a weird place, weaklings glom together to pick on or exclude those who can’t or won’t defend themselves…the science nerd, gay kid, fat kid, the foreign kid who has an accent…whatever. For a couple of years in high school you experienced first hand what these blacks and asians will experience in big and small ways their whole lives.

Ok, you’re also putting words in my mouth. I did not claim that I was bullied, I clearly stated that I thought the jokes were funny and that I didn’t mind them. I have absolutely no hard feelings about what was said and done. I also said that the jamaicans and koreans thought the jokes made about them were funny as well, and that they didn’t see it as bullying. I’m making a point about the difference in how the school, on an official level, reacted to the jokes. In my situation, there was no reaction, while in the korean/jamaican situation the school threatened with the most severe punishment possible. Double standards? Hidden racism by the school administration? Absolutely yes.

[viraj]

would the party be considered as racist. Peter Sellers playing an indian. Guess we are becoming less tolerant

[Codtrawler87]

@Kiplinger

I don’t think there is “hidden racism” or any such thing. As for “double standards”, maybe if you look at this scenario in a vacuum but history works on a continuous timeline and considering America is still by and large an extension of European culture the “jokes” aimed at you can be written of as brotherly camaraderie.

There are ample data points in American popular culture to support this, one being the promotion of ‘Valentino’ at the expense of Sessue Hayakawa. By and large, “other” whites like Italians, Irish etc have been incorporated into the mainstream white culture of America, an avenue closed to other ethnicities and this is why people perhaps treat them with “special” consideration.

The White nationalist movement also thinks along these lines, that Whites share a similar culture and heritage and should be re-united as one country. I think it would be funny watching them try and get the Americans to co-exist with the Russians but anyway.

I don’t really care one way or another, just providing a view as to why they might have behaved that way

Good point and that’s definitely a possibility, but I am trying to make a broader point about double standards and not just tell a little snippet of my own experiences. Take a look at the link 2000Magician posted. Substitute “white” for “black” in any of those articles and you have a white supremacist pageant competition at University of Texas at Austin. Another example is the dating app that only allows access to black people. Why is this allowed while if someone created a dating app that allows access only to white people, they’d be flogged by the media and the law? The same people who would cry “racism” when reading about an white-only pageant competition or a white-only dating app, but remain silent when they read about a black-only dating app/pageant competition proves that these people, who very often identify themselves as progressives and anti-racist, are in fact racist and do not consider all people to be on the same “level”.

[Schopenhauer]

@Codtrawler87

Good point and that’s definitely a possibility, but I am trying to make a broader point about double standards and not just tell a little snippet of my own experiences. Take a look at the link 2000Magician posted. Substitute “white” for “black” in any of those articles and you have a white supremacist pageant competition at University of Texas at Austin. Another example is the dating app that only allows access to black people. Why is this allowed while if someone created a dating app that allows access only to white people, they’d be flogged by the media and the law? The same people who would cry “racism” when reading about an white-only pageant competition or a white-only dating app, but remain silent when they read about a black-only dating app/pageant competition proves that these people, who very often identify themselves as progressives and anti-racist, are in fact racist and do not consider all people to be on the same “level”.

It is wrong, but there’s only so much we can (or should) get pissed about. Is it wrong that some people can make an app that excludes people based on race? Probably yes. Am I going to spend my energy getting pissed about black people making a black beauty pageant when there’s blackface going around? Probably no.

Is it wrong you get called names and can’t respond because you’re white? Yes. Are there bigger things to be concerned about? Also yes.

It just comes across as a bit tone-deaf.

[Codtrawler87]

@Schopenhauer

@Codtrawler87

Good point and that’s definitely a possibility, but I am trying to make a broader point about double standards and not just tell a little snippet of my own experiences. Take a look at the link 2000Magician posted. Substitute “white” for “black” in any of those articles and you have a white supremacist pageant competition at University of Texas at Austin. Another example is the dating app that only allows access to black people. Why is this allowed while if someone created a dating app that allows access only to white people, they’d be flogged by the media and the law? The same people who would cry “racism” when reading about an white-only pageant competition or a white-only dating app, but remain silent when they read about a black-only dating app/pageant competition proves that these people, who very often identify themselves as progressives and anti-racist, are in fact racist and do not consider all people to be on the same “level”.

It is wrong, but there’s only so much we can (or should) get pissed about. Is it wrong that some people can make an app that excludes people based on race? Probably yes. Am I going to spend my energy getting pissed about black people making a black beauty pageant when there’s blackface going around? Probably no.

Is it wrong you get called names and can’t respond because you’re white? Yes. Are there bigger things to be concerned about? Also yes.

It just comes across as a bit tone-deaf.

Where are you getting this idea that I’m pissed and that I wanted to respond with racist slurs but couldn’t because I’m white? I’ve explained twice that that’s not the case. You’re just glancing over my posts, spotting some trigger words, and then having the all too typical knee-jerk reaction which results in incomprehensible comments that have nothing to do with what I said. That or you’re just trolling away your Sunday. If that’s the case, I’ll bite and try to explain my point one more time: this has absolutely nothing to do with me and what I do. I don’t care one bit about black-only dating apps or some weird black-only beauty contest at UAT. I’m pointing out the double standards of those people who react differently to these kinds of racist situations, depending on who the “victim” is. By reacting differently to a pageant competition when it’s black-only than when t is white-only, you reveal your inner racist biases, which many of these people so proudly proclaim doesn’t exist.

[Schopenhauer]

@Codtrawler87

Where are you getting this idea that I’m pissed and that I wanted to respond with racist slurs but couldn’t because I’m white? I’ve explained twice that that’s not the case. You’re just glancing over my posts, spotting some trigger words, and then having the all too typical knee-jerk reaction which results in incomprehensible comments that have nothing to do with what I said. That or you’re just trolling away your Sunday. If that’s the case, I’ll bite and try to explain my point one more time: this has absolutely nothing to do with me and what I do. I don’t care one bit about black-only dating apps or some weird black-only beauty contest at UAT. I’m pointing out the double standards of those people who react differently to these kinds of racist situations, depending on who the “victim” is. By reacting differently to a pageant competition when it’s black-only than when t is white-only, you reveal your inner racist biases, which many of these people so proudly proclaim doesn’t exist.

You keep on saying I’m not listening to what I said, but I keep on agreeing with your points!

It is a double standard, and it is bad. People should not make fun of you for your accent and characteristics that you can’t change. But I’ll make my point one last time: You took my post, which was literally a wiki-link of blackface, drag shows, and rachel dolezal (a woman who identifies as black) and wanted to parallel it with a story of your high school days and the double standard you suffered. I fundamentally don’t understand why if this has ‘nothing to do with you and what you do’ when you chose to reply to my post with a personal story about your experiences with racism. If you’re not trying to compare black-face with your experiences in high school, than I legitimately don’t get why you replied to a wiki link on blackface if you didn’t want to compare the history black-face with your personal experience.