Let’s use this thread to discuss a serious topic. Please note this is NOT about Trump, these social movements were building way before him, they went too far, which created a niche for him. It seems we now have a much needed…
Social backlash against 1) political correctness, 2) the whiners who want to hide in their “safe space”, 3) man hate, white hate, and other hate of majorities, 4) millennial incompetence, 5) priorities like addressing transgender bathrooms instead of USG insolvency.
How did Americans go this far? Did they think there would be no snap back the other way? Why did they think they could force their views on others, is this not the definition of bigotry? It seems anti-bigotry is the current state of bigotry.
The Economist pointed out recently that it is false that racial relations in the US have been deteriorating. It is just that with the advent of social media, and now this election, the tensions are presented as magnified thought the lens of memes and alternative news. What I fear now is that a place where progress had actually be occurring will now fall victim to a self fulfilling prophecy.
I think it was around the time Obama was campaigning, back in 2007. The things him, his wife, and supporters said caused a lot of guilt, tension, and damage.
Here is an example of the media white-hate, since you guys have selected this element first…
I’m scrolling thru my FB feed, 3 of the first 10 items!!! Don’t think too hard, just pretend you are skimming your news feed on Sunday. On the surface it sounds like white people are real bastards!? This seems to be implied continuously, everywhere in the media. Hey, I’m pretty darn sure that white people are fantastic! We have done amazing things, much of modern society was built by our brilliance. So why do we never hear about THAT?
America’s Economy Was Built on Slavery, Not White Ingenuity —Historians Should Tell It Like It Is
_ Two white men standing in a gold-plated lift are claiming they’ve stuck it to the elite_
_ A White Nationalist Who Hates Jews Will Be Trump’s Right-Hand Man In The White House_
…Maybe because white men have always had the megaphone to announce how awesome they think they are. Now, they are gracefully handing the voice over. Not all of that sentiment will be positive. Just chill… have grace. (stop taking ridiculous FB memes seriously. Really PA, I thought you were more pragmatic than that)
I do agree on the damage of being over PC. That goes beyond tolerance. It’s like that couple that NEVER fights and then they completely blow up in disasterour fashion. It’s also analogous to banning short selling in a market. It’s unstable.
^ Pretty sure the population just said they DO NOT agree, I am analyzing their vote.
Okay, now we are moving into the next fun topic, patriarchy hatred. Cmon, nobody is “gracefully handing the voice over”. Men are attacked continuously in every movie, TV show, advertisement, and news story…portrayed as stupid and worthless. I’ve been pointing this trend out for a decade, nobody would acknowledge, even though obvious. Why? Because if men complain, they are pathetic whiners. If women complain, they must be abuse victims or anti-feminists. A fear environment distributed by the corrupt media.
And so men’s voice was silenced, society went to total chaos, and that led to Trump the “law and order” guy…patriarchy returns. Humans subconsciously knew dysfunctional gynarchy wasn’t working. Or at least the red counties knew it, the blue likes lawlessness.
When is the last time we saw a media article on white men being awesome? The 1950s? Who in the media would have the guts to write that in this bigoted media environment? The writer would instantly be labeled a misogynist racist and have their career destroyed.
Let’s do PC next, that stuff was crap, thank gawd that is over…
Yeah, OK PA. I see your point and I agree. “If men complain they are pathetic whiners, but if women or minorities complain they must be a victim”. My explanation is that this is a tricky time. Western society is still assumed to have the unfair advantage going to white men. However, I would say laws and social norms have already eroded significantly into that advantage. So, what we have is a group that is still assumed to have a birthright advantage but they simply don’t anymore. Eventually that leveling of the playing field will be apparent and it will be acceptable for white men to complain about getting the short end of the stick. For now, white men, suck it up. Sure is a nice problem to have.
People despise ‘political correctness’ yet when Obama tells it like it is and it isn’t in their interests they cry like like little wankers wah wah wah 'why is he demonizing us and drawing lines in the sand?
Not exactly a ringing endorsement for the ‘tolerance’ of the White Man is it?
Im going to say this politely because I like you but please stop talking absolute garbage.
You talk as if White Men are some sort of poor oppressed demographic in the States, guess what pumpkin everyone else has the same problems without the cover of being White. You talk about representation on Television of all the moronic things. If you’re in the USA and are bombarded with American media what do you see, White men everywhere - they can be whatever they want to be. Where are the Asians, where are the Hispanics, Why do women despite being 51% of the population still get no more than 33% of lead speaking roles (and only if it is a certain fit), why are source characters being re-written and/or whitewashed? Of course it’s because ‘there are no bankable non-White stars’. Guess what? If you don’t help create them they won’t be there.
The whole world has moved on, we don’t have this crap in Australia, they certainly don’t have it in the UK and continental Europeans are wired differently.
But you know what, be more self-centred, be more insular and whine about how everything and everyone is against you. Every non-White person in the USA had their blinders pulled off and the backlash is going to be brutal.
Neither side will even try to understand the other. Liberals think that things should be a certain way, and anything against is impeding ‘progress’. Right thinks progress is an abomination. Media (for the most part) is liberal promoting equal rights, social justice bla bla bla which is great - but only if you’re of that mindset. There is another entire half of the population that doesn’t think like that and whenever they even remotely pipe up, they’re instantly labeled bigots, racists, sexists and so on. So they say nothing, and have been slowing stewing in their own thoughts that ‘society’ has deemed unacceptable. Someone like Trump comes along and there you go. If someone running for office thinks like that and says those things, these people that have been chastised for their own beliefs finally have a voice.
How do you solve it? Both sides need to learn to actually argue out their points (especially millennial liberals) and have a discussion. For any movement or issue. You can’t expect deeply religious people to be ok with gay marriage or transgender washrooms because they’ve been taught over their entire lives that its blasphemy. Liberals come in and are like ‘this is how it should be! finally!’ - just doesn’t work that way.
Monkey above is proof of that. Most of his posts related to social issues have that hint of arrogance that would make a person with opposite views either defend their point with anger or just not talk about the issue anymore; their voice isn’t being heard. Welcome to populism.
You can’t have an opinion until you can argue both sides of the argument better than your opponent. It’s fair to say not many americans (or people in general) even consider the other side. “My way or the highway” “The American Way”. It’s all bullshit that transcends race, gender and whatnot. It’s basic self awareness that is just absolutely lost on so many.
There is ONE theory I’ve seen that understands this dynamic and attempts to integrate it into an internally consistent ‘theory of consciousness’: Ken Wilber’s Integral Theory. If you want to have an understanding beyond this never-ending and fruitless war of world views, I suggest you read this:
So you’re lamenting the fact that people can’t have a discussion but apparently people putting forward their opinions with a bit of arrogance is enough for people to get angry and not have a chat, said angry blokes then complain about political correctness gone too far. Doesn’t make much sense unless there is some drastic cultural nuance I’m missing but you’re not Yankee either.
Purealpha alleged that White Men are not privileged and sure we can say that a White dude struggling to put food on a table in Michigan doesn’t feel privileged but in the broader picture he still has it better than a Black Man in the same position for a variety of reasons. The example of no positive White Male on Television was blatant rubbish, if he had spoken about it in a British or Euro context I might have agreed with him, he didn’t, he spoke about it from an America POV and in America television is clearly one of the last remaining examples of ‘White privilege’.
Is the left too extreme in its liberalism, probably? Have they suppressed discussion? It looks like in the USA they have and that’s wrong but to suggest they should be more accommodating of the right and their religious views because they aren’t comfortable with it is dangerous. That is simply not how any positive movement at any point of time has forced change. How is that going to work in reality anyway? Sorry gay bros, there’s a dude who is VP now and thinks homosexuality is curable, just live in secrecy for a bit because you know they are not comfortable with it? Somehow, I don’t think that’s going to go down so well.
^ Could be. At the same time I can understand people being completely uncomfortable with giving him a chance. You can’t run a campaign on so much hate and divison without adding qualifications in your statements and expect to be given a clean slate to start with.
It’s telling that a president had to tell citizens of his own country that they have nothing to fear with his presidency at the same time appointing people who have seriously questionable racial views onto his team.
^ Brilliant post by someone who understands the situation.
I have the advantage analyzing topics like this, because I am not a “sides” person, I merely quietly observe from outside society. As the observer, I’m here to tell you guys who lost, the “liberal elite progressives or whatever”, you are objectively wrong. Rethink and find your error, because this will not go away.
A big part of the problem is the American “sides” culture, related to their love of argument, which the government and corporations play (divide and conquer strategy). CNN takes one extreme view, FOX takes another, drive people into camps, then have an argument into perpetuity. With the mob distracted, resume maximizing profits.
Sorry, I like you two, but you are way behind what just happened.
Nobody is going to wait for their rights to “eventually be acceptable”, because you’ll be waiting forever. They waited long enough, you ignored them. They stood up and said screw you, we’ll have our rights back NOW. That’s real democracy, the majority DOES matter.
^Monkey, I was giving an example of how we as humans have lost the ability to have a civil conversation without emotions getting in the way of a positive discussion. If I as a white man was to talk to a black person about their struggles (just imagine two dudes having a chat trying to learn of one another) and then for whatever reason the words ‘white privilege’ gets thrown into the conversation, the white man is on the defense, no longer engaging in a positive conversation. There is no personal development. The white man can no longer learn of the struggles that the black man is facing and cannot change his own opinion of the issue. The type of discussion that I’m suggesting is required calls for a hell of a lot of maturity and an ability to put personal beliefs aside to actually learn something. Do I see this happening on a large scale? hell no. As a global society, we will continue with these pendulum shifts in ‘societal progress’. Who knows where we’ll end up.
I’ll give you another example - earlier in the year, when Islamophobia was at a peak, there was a lot of hate in the media and online bla bla bla. I was not well educated on the religion of Islam but had formed an opinion based on what was shown in the media, I thought to myself “shit, this is bad”. I went on for a week or so watching videos on youtube and reading the news here and there which reinforced this opinion. Then, one day i changed my perspective. why? because i had a talk with my muslim friend. a discussion without boundaries or judgment. I asked questions, he answered. I became more informed about his view and realized that maybe it’s not as bad as I’m thinking. Obviously there is an issue, but to put that issue and make it about all people that practice a certain religion is ridiculous. I was able to learn.
Now this is where the self-awareness comes into play on a large scale. Individuals from both sides need to ask themselves “why does this bother me?” “what am i not understanding about the issue?” “Why does the other side see things the way they do?” These types of questions alone would promote discussion, not at the highest levels of government, but with the regular joe. if you get enough of the regular people talking about these issues, the perspectives will gradually change and the pendulum effect of social reform that we’re experiencing may change. It won’t happen overnight, and I think that’s what liberals are expecting which in turn is causing the right to backlash.
Exactly. And let’s zoom out, and see this pattern during the last eight years…
In championing the minorities, there must be some villain right?? But who could it be? Well, it must be the majority. They did it!! You are not a bigot if you blame the majority right? Safe to demonize the majority right??
