I tend to agree with bromion here. Yes, there is still racism in America, but if you start saying that it makes America a sh*thole, then you have to be able to respond to the question “compared to what?”
What seems to drive zidhai’s posts is some kind of quasi-orgasmic joy in saying that America is crap/sh*t/whatever, based on some generalization and his/her opinion (presented as fact, is that a CFA ethics violation??). The fact that there are grains of truth and/or plausibility in some of the things that zidhai says (i.e. racism still exists and it sucks that it does) does not mean that the exaggerated conclusions he/she takes them to (i.e. all America is a sh*thole) are thus correct.
I know that a lot of Asians are sensitive to being asked about whether they are of Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Cambodian, Filipino, or Malay descent. To some extent, one should try to respect that sensitivity, but quite honestly, I don’t get it.
Unless you are native american, all americans have an immigrant experience somewhere in their background over the last 400 years, and most have had that experience within the last 100-150 years. People considered white may be of English, Irish, Scottish, German, Dutch, Sweedish, French, Polish, Italian, Russian, Spanish, Georgian, Jewish, etc…, and talking about it is something americans do.
I, for example, am basically half English, half German Jew. The English part of my family were Vikings about 1000 years ago, but the bloodthirsty rampaging Viking in me was forcibly bleeched out of me by a generation or two that lived in Canada from about 1890-1960.
As for Asian-Americans, I know that Chinese descended Asians *hate* being mistaken for Japanese-descended Asians, and vice versa, and Koreans don’t like being mistaken either. I am better at figuring these things out than I was when I was a kid, but it seems to me that simply asking about what cultural things are in your background is not racism, but simply curiosity and openness to the fact that people in the Americas have a cultural history that often comes from somewhere else, and may or may not persist to the present.
I think maybe the issue is that people who are overtly racist may ask that question with a different intent (“ah, so you’re not really American”), than people who are simply curious about what cultural elements might be more meaningful to you than to the average pasty white guy. But asking the question is not in itself a racist act… racism is more about how one responds to the answer, I think.
When I first got to the US, I found it weird that people would ask me whether I am Chinese, Japanese, Korean, or something else. Then I realized that these races all look mostly the same, so it’s not a big deal. I think people who feel bad about being asked this question are just insecure about their race or their place in US culture. Otherwise, they just have not gone through the exercise of placing themselves in other people’s point of view.
i’m scottish, irish and french canadian and i look italian. everyone who’s ever met me assumed i was italian. i get asked this question all the time and people go, what? you’re not italian? i’ve had acquaintances call me fbi for months (full blooded italian) before realizing i’m not even italian. i’ve had an italian hockey teammate call me “cousin” for 6 months, assuming i was a fellow italian, despite my last name being clearly scottish/irish. when he found out, he didn’t call me cousin anymore. why would i be offended, i look italian. if you’re korean and look han chinese, suck it up.
I really don’t get why everyone makes such a fuss about racism - humans by nature (IMO) are racist.
An example taken to extreme - if you had blue ducks in a lake, suddenly one day an orange duck shows up - do you seriously expect them to behave the same way with the orange one as they do with others? I don’t think so! It’s not because they want to insult the orange duck but because it’s a new experience for them.
So I think the whole world should just STFU about racism, the more you pay attention to to it the more of a problem it becomes. No one in my extended circle of acquaintances gives a dammn about whether one is black white brown orange or blue - it’s just a flippin colour.
I love meeting new people and asking them questions that may be deemed as racist but I do it anyway because it’s ok to be curious about someone whose clearly from a different background
In England we have many many jokes going about the welsh, the irish, the scotts and obviously the french They’re all white, but isn’t that racist on some level too?
Point being, there are far more important things to worry about in this world - for example, Jon Stewart showing up on WWE Raw.
Racism is the belief that a person’s race makes them an innately superior or inferior person (and therefore more deserving or less deserving of privileges afforded to others).
I would call the statement that you quoted above an observation that people of certain ethnicities have behaviors that are different from other ethnicities. As an observation, it is open to challenge by those who oberve it differently. It also contains no statement about whether this makes people superior or not, and would require some twisting and embellishing to get it to mean or imply that.
In addition, you deliberately left out the part that said that even though I don’t understand it, one should try to show some respect for that sensitivity.
Really. White people get asked where they/re from? That is news to me. It doesn’t really matter, but maybe there’s a nuanced difference ie where is your family from vs where are -you- from (hey fob)=>can be insulting if you identify as american.
I don’t know. It was just upsetting because you are calling this guy racist and then saying go back to your rapey third world country? It reminded me of a time a friend came back from Tibet and I half jokingly asked her if she met any cute guys and she says ‘ew no’ (=why would i ever think a tibetan is cute yuk)
Of course racism exists, and yes I do believe it’s human nature… maybe you naturally dislike/distrust anything that is different than you? And it can’t be just looks- one of the worst cases of racism imo is Japanese vs korean settlers/immigrants (I don’t know what the appropriate term is here. Korean descent, now Japanese). It’s awful. But honestly you can’t always tell who’s who unless you see their name.
Anyway- being asked where you are from is just an example. I really don’t think white people would ever experience the same sort of treatment that minorities face (in non-home countries duh otherwise you wouldn’t be a minority). That’s not pointing fingers and saying America is terrible and white people are awful… just saying it won’t hurt to be aware.
Pretending that all races are the same is the real ignorance. Are we not allowed to notice that generally different races have different cultures, or is that only OK when we ‘celebrate diversity’ in politically-correct ways, like at a museum or during “black history month”?
Ok, I see that someone asking what part of Asia are *you* from if you were born and raised in the US is a big “oops.”
If you arrived after you were a teenager, though, it seems like a reasonable question as to “where did you grow up?” I am white and am still asked where I grew up. And it’s asked with the phrasing “Where are you from?”
There are definitely anti-immigrant groups out there who would say if you aren’t born here, you should go back, but whether they ask about where you were born is not something that will serve well to separate those people from people who are just curious about what your life has been like.
In other words, racist people will ask that question, but not everyone who asks that question is a racist. (In fact, many truly racist people won’t bother asking that question - your physical appearence may well tell them all they care to know).
I’m not sure what this is supposed to show. I think we’re allowed to have preferences about who we’d exchange bodily fluids with yet still be able to treat people with equal respect in pretty much every other way. Usually cross-cultural romance is tricky because the rituals of courtship and preening are different, as well as the symbolic meaning of various behaviors.
Interesting. I’d always assumed that the difficulties I sometimes have in distinguishing Chinese from Japanese from Korean by looks alone was just me being a white person who’s clueless about what to me seem like subtle differentiations. I’d somehow assumed it was a lot more obvious to Asian people, and figured that that is why we seem so clueless when we ask a question like “What part of Asia is your family from?”
It’s also true that as a white person, we aren’t always able to tell who is of Swedish origin, who is German, who is English, who is Irish, Italian, etc… Last names can give a hint. Colorations can give a hint. But often we can’t tell until we ask.
Over the history of the United States, the most recent immigrants are almost always maligned as being a drain on society, morally corrupt in some way, taking good jobs away from honest working (already here) americans. First the Irish, then the Germans, then Italians and Poles, Jews, etc… White people have been pretty unfriendly to other white immigrant groups throughout much of American history; it is one of the more shameful aspects of the immigration/assimilation process.
At the same time there are relatively few countries in the world that have had to deal with assimilation of varied ethnic groups on a large scale. Most of them are in the Americas. When one criticizes how race relations work in the US, one really has to ask if other countries do a better job of assimilating such large numbers of different people, and to what extent are the lessons learned there transportable.
case in point, i know a malaysian who says that malaysia, basically the only large truly multiethnic country in asia, is the most racist place on the planet. not sure if its a good comparison to real destination countries like the U.S., Canada, Australia and Western Europe but is some food for thought.
They’re all white, but isn’t that racist on some level too?