Although I sympathize with the folks here, it is still hard to believe that people do anything whatsoever that would give anyone an excuse to report them. By the time you reach Level 3 you figure that CFAI can be very strict about rules. I can understand if a level 1 candidate gets written up for looking around but level 3 is just hard to believe. I never have the need to stop during exam and stretch or look around. Who has the time? and if you do have the time you probably aren’t gonna pass anyway.
i had 1 hour on PM to stretch and look around.
VCer Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > My wristwatch broke down just one day before the exam day, then I violated the testing > rule > by taking my desktimer into the test room. > The proctors caught me, bothered me during the AM sesstion several times about my > violation, then wrote a report to CFAI. > Later I was told I should expect PCP but so far no notification from CFAI yet. > I am still kinda worrying. I’m so sick of people violating the rules and then try to act like victims when they’re caught. How hard is it to get a watch? Use a replacement; borrow one from a friend; buy one for $0.50 at the quarter machines. You violated a rule and you DESERVE to be written up for it. The proctors are not “bother[ing]” you because they are doing their job. Likewise, if you’re going to be looking and moving around during a test, then don’t play the victim card. Don’t act like you’ve never taken a test before. This is nothing personal, but rules are rules.
Well it was pretty stupid to bring a desk timer to the exam. You can buy a Casio at 7-11 or a Rolex on any street corner in NYC. Nevertheless, I don’t agree with dean. What exactly are the rules about looking around? What are the rules about moving around in your seat? You are taking a test that you have studied forfor months - it’s pretty natural to want to see expressions on other people’s faces or just take in the scene. I think that the heavy-handed threatening done by CFAI has more to do with bullying than stopping people from cheating. Even the writing after the bell seems like BS to me - everytime I ever gave a test I would call time by saying something like “OK wrap it up people…” - people take an extra 5 - 15 secs to finish the sentence or fill in the oval. Big deal. CFAI apparently thinks it’s a big deal and is ruthless about enforcing very strict lines. As for who has the time - it depends on the test. I don’t think many people on LIII AM had any time for sightseeing this year, but that’s the exception. I know I never saw the final half hour on any level AM or PM.
Wild conversation. If you bring unauthorized items to the test or forget to bring batteries or a backup calculator, then I don’t have sympathy for you. Yes, it sucks that you can’t bring your GPS timepiece and yes it sucks that there isn’t a big digital clock overhead so that you can check your time. Yet, those are the rules. Get a good watch that works. Bring an extra 12c or TI with extra batteries. Moving around and looking around. I did look straight forward during the test. I don’t recall ever looking behind me. I may have quickly glanced at the guys to my left and right. It is hard not to do. Yet, I quickly corrected myself. Seems to me that a violation would be hard to prove unless the proctor saw you looking for a significant amount of time. If I were a proctor and saw a guy looking for a second or two, I would stand behind the candidate and focus on whether he/she there is a pattern of looking.
bostonkev Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Is it possible to wear horse blinders for tests? 2009 Pre-exam checklist: Watch…check! Calculator…check! HB2 Pencils…check! Passport…check! Exam ticket…check! TI BAII Calculator …check! Horseblinders …check! WTF???
joey makes an excellent point. say i wanted to cheat and look at someone elses answers. do you guys think i could? particurally on the essay section? it’s not as though we are that close to the person next to us. to get a look i’d say it would be very obvious you were cheating.
After a few hours of being hunched over a test booklet and writing or filling in ovals, I sure feel the need to stretch my fingers, arms and neck. I sure hope I can twist my neck to stretch the muscles without being accused of cheating, even if it involves looking around the room. Personally, the way it’s set up, I think it’d be pretty hard to cheat by copying. People are sitting far enough away from each other that you’d have to be staring right at their answer sheet and pretty carefully at it to make anything out.
Maybe I am just too stubborn or anal but by level 3 you know how strict CFA can be. why would you jeopardize anything by looking around. i am a man of average built and most of you can prolly beat me up. with my average physical resources i am able to sit in one place with my eyes looking at my exam copy for 3 hours straight, maybe look up a few times at the proctor or the time chart. but thats it. i cannot, will not, shall not, might now, should not, would not understand why people would do ANYTHING to jeopardize several hours of studying.
in LA the proctors seem to be retired people and HS students. lack of common sense seems to be the universal trait not race. edit: for instance they spend 15 minutes this year talking over what to since a young lady had 2 forms of ID and didn’t have any pockets to put the second form of id in. they actually told her she had to go and put one of the IDs in her car until she pointed out the exam was starting in 10 minutes. finally they agreed to let her put her license in her passport. why this took 15 minutes is beyond me.
farley013…first you don’t even consider state schools…now you are racist towards blacks and hispanics? ZOMG! What’s next? I can see your point though. If you want the best and the brightest with raw skills instead of soft skills, with sheer IQ instead of gaming-the-system skills (work hard at an early age, etc.), your “ivy league” criteria for your position as a fund-of-funds manager should actually be refined…a better quick/dirty screen is towards people of the following background: 1. male 2. asian/white/indian/jewish (not of any order, also, asian of chinese/japanese/korean origin) 3. PhD physicists/mathematicians/engineers (not of any order) Business, finance, economics, psychology (and every other field) people as a group, even from the top of the top schools (ivy league) and highest professional degrees, are probably 1.5 to 2.5 standard deviations in IQ lower “on average” then people with this combination. Disclaimer: Please use the search function…my huge thread in the general discussion section from yesterday puts these probably offensive classifications into context. The basis of my arguments there wasn’t so much that the average state school person was better than the average ivy (which it seemed you interpreted it as) or that all ivy leaguers are dumb (from which it turned personal…and degenerated to crap quickly between me and numi since I placed him into the following group as discussed below and he placed me as an adherent to one of the previous two arguments), BUT that the best physicists/mathematicians/engineers at state schools have a very high potential to totally outclass people from other fields, even if those people from other fields are at ivy league…a 4.0 GPA in economics, psychology, business, etc. from an $200,000 ivy league institution could be put to better use as toilet paper compared to a 4.0 in physics/math/engineering from a state school. These are all in generalities of course… [The 3 edits are typos and minor refinements…and because I’m pretty OCD]
“that the best physicists/mathematicians/engineers at state schools have a very high potential to totally outclass people from other fields, even if those people from other fields are at ivy league…a 4.0 GPA in economics, psychology, business, etc. from an $200,000 ivy league institution could be put to better use as toilet paper compared to a 4.0 in physics/math/engineering from a state school.” should have been “that the best physicists/mathematicians/engineers at state schools have a very high potential to totally outclass people from other fields, even if those people from other fields are at ivy league…the diploma with a 4.0 GPA in economics, psychology, business, etc. from a $200,000+ ivy league education could be put to better use as toilet paper (and to fold up and prop up an unstable table) if you compare it “realistically” to the diploma with a 4.0 GPA in physics/math/engineering from a $50,000 state school.”
My only response to your snoozer of a trying-to-be-stupid-but-no-one-cares-post is…why are you on the Level 3 board? I thought this was reserved for people who actually passed Level 2.
No, I think your ideas have merit. I am agreeing with you…read what I wrote…before dismissing me as someone who isn’t as worthy as you are. Looks like you didn’t read carefully and it seems I can’t have any real type of conversation with you without attitude and sarcasm.
Why are you so caught up in trying to be better and to defend yourself under threats to your convictions? Are you so scared that your convictions may warrant further nuances than they currently contain (and therefore you can’t so dismiss and put fools in their place so easily)?
farley013 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > My only response to your snoozer of a > trying-to-be-stupid-but-no-one-cares-post is…why > are you on the Level 3 board? I thought this was > reserved for people who actually passed Level 2. Bad ethics violation there. Gotta pass LII to post here.
OK, seems like you guys are more into games than consider the post I made, trying to follow up legitimately on farley013’s post.
Like I said in the previous post, your general views have merit in a general sense…but not too much after I consider your specific arguments and logic… farley013 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > but here in NYC at least I’ve > noticed that a large number of proctors seem to be > blacks and hispanics 1. No shit, that’s cause there are more blacks and hispanics in NYC in general. What if you took it in some place in Russia, Australia, or Toronto? If you didn’t assume a correct world view and then take all evidence to support it, you would probably not think this way. > from local community colleges > (I’ve heard a few people ask them where they’re > from) 2. I love it, implicitly disparaging them for going to community colleges…with the ultimate power of a very small sample size and anecdotal evidence to back it up. I guess that’s all that matters to you since the world revolves around you and you are simply seeking evidence to support your already-formed ideas. 3. Many of those community college people probably didn’t have the money to pay the tens of thousands of dollars out-of-pocket or feared taking out the large loans. Furthermore, a sense of loving education might not have been instilled into them until later on in life, by far, way past the time it took to prepare for your elite schools (despite how that takes hard work and dedication). I’m not a liberal… > and a large number of test takers seem to be > affluent Asian, Indian, and Jewish people from > Wall Street firms. 4. How do you know they are affluent? I can go out and buy a $5,000 suit for a day and I would look affluent. Once again, if you didn’t assume a correct world view and then take all evidence to support it, you would probably not think this way. > A little bit of racial jealousy > on the part of the proctors that their people > aren’t as successful as “our” people perhaps? 5. That comment is based on the increase in the number of PCP posts here on AnalystForum…a pretty trivial sample size compared to the population of all test takers world wide. 6. I’m in one of “our” people groups you mention - implicitly the “better” ones, but your comment is framed in a provocative way (just like the tone of most of your posts) with only trivial evidence and anecdotal evidence. If I were a black or hispanic and I read stupidity like what you write, backed up my ridiculous logic…I’d feel oppressed too. Again, I’m not a liberal. 7. Your goal isn’t to discuss, it’s to put fools in their place. If you and this type of thinking can get you a spot as a high-salary fund-of-funds manager, I am not too worried about my job prospects after I graduate from school.
farley013 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I don’t mean to start a race war or stereotype > people (unless it’s Chinese people and then JDV > might back me up), but here in NYC at least I’ve > noticed that a large number of proctors seem to be > blacks and hispanics from local community colleges > (I’ve heard a few people ask them where they’re > from) and a large number of test takers seem to be > affluent Asian, Indian, and Jewish people from > Wall Street firms. A little bit of racial jealousy > on the part of the proctors that their people > aren’t as successful as “our” people perhaps? You must be joking? Or am I having nightmare?
Also another thing to add to this “race war”… he doesn’t even consider blacks and hispanics outside of his freakin’ little world. There are many hispanics outside of NYC, NY, and America. There are many blacks outside of NYC, NY, and America, North America, and the western hemisphere.