Are these guys very stupid or just proud to be the emotional black hole for the rest of the world?
are those the only choices? : )
anyways, i’m a big supporter/believer in israel, but what they did is so freaking stupid on so many levels.
Israel was in a very difficult spot and this appears to have been there least bad option. Intel says that the ship had links to al-Qaeda and that the ship was ordered to turn around and Israel would transport the cargo themselves into Gaza. I believe the intel must have been plausible because Israel would not risk such outrage unless they believe the downside of the alternative to be worse. As for charges of overreaction that Israel has few options. Ever since Gaza was handed back to the Palestinians they have constantly been engaged in low level conflict with Israel trying to deal them the death of a thousand cuts.
^ Apologist.
Look up Samson Option and then we can talk about mideast alliances.
Here is a book review that gives a good overview. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/16/AR2006021601897.html The Samson option was neither created by Samson nor has it been covered in the derivatives section on options. Discuss.
I don’t identify as either pro or anti Israel, but Israel has been so excessively marginalized, with countries around it openly calling for its destruction, it is bound to react angrily. Just IMO.
ShintreH Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I don’t identify as either pro or anti Israel, but > Israel has been so excessively marginalized, with > countries around it openly calling for its > destruction, it is bound to react angrily. Just > IMO. hmm…a decade or so ago your sentence could also have read: “I don’t identify as either pro or anti South African, but apartheid-South Africa has been so excessively marginalized, with countries around it openly calling for its destruction, it is bound to react angrily. Just IMO.”
@ newsuper hmmmmmmmm
Newsuper, I lol’ed
Ah…and why is Israel comparable to South Africa?
Those guys had some serious balls to try to jet in there like that. Damn.
Isnt discrimination based on race and ethnicity considered Apartheid? Or does that only count when you are black? Ever hear of Rothschild and war bonds? Or the Lavon affair? Yeah they are only “defending” their country by attempting to launch a false flag operation or threaten to nuke every major city in the world if they are attacked. Google Mordechai Vanunu and do your homework before you take sides with another country. How come we are constantly catching Mossad agents operating inside the US ? Why do our “friends” need to spy on us? I dont comprehend how people think we need to do whats in the best interest of another country when it has such indirect negative consequences on our own national security.
Here are two articles that explain each side of the case of Israel being an apartheid state. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/feb/06/southafrica.israel - Israel bad http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/01/AR2010030102761.html -Israel has its faults (just as all other countries have them) but apartheid is a gross exageration. Out of all the confustion and bloodshed that has occured over there coupled with the fact that Israel’s neighbors pose an existential threat to Israel I believe that if Israel decided to put down their weapons they would be eradicated. If the Palestinians put down their weapons, then Gaza and the West Bank would be on the on the fast track to share in the same prosperity and freedom as Israel. Without security, the feasibility of Arabs in Gaza and the West Bank sharing in the same civil liberties as Israeli Arabs can be nothing more than a pipe dream.
BizBanker Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I dont comprehend how people > think we need to do whats in the best interest of > another country when it has such indirect negative > consequences on our own national security. The same can be said for vitrually every war that virtually any nation ever entered. I’m with ek0 on this one - security is the most critical component of Israels policy debates. Without it, all other points are moot.
Then why not propose their security measures here? Check all potential terrorist profiles at the airport, heck even if they are driving around. Detain without trial or representation, suspend habeas corpus, attack civilians without accountability. Not to mention the 3Bn in aid we give them annually but to what end? I dont see any national interest we have there that is bearing any fruit nor has. We gave them a nation state, give them weapons, and continue to support them without any benefits. If someone can explain to me why we side with them vs any other country when they have openly defied international law then maybe I am missing something. And some in their military have threatened to nuke Europe if attacked. What the hell kind of “security policy” is that?
They received $2 trillion since 1970 from the US.
The security interests are complicated and go back decades. With the U.S. and Russia vying to secure such a volatile region there was bound to be residual conflict and resentment hence the current phase of the mess with people who hate everyone aligned with the West. Given this state of affairs where past a point of no return 60 years ago we need a reliable ally with democratic values and institutions. This isn’t some sentimental the democracies of the world unite fluff (although nothing wrong with seeing it as a welcome bonus), but this need is rooted in the notion that there are many congruent interests because of residual conflicts from old Cold War battle lines. As a result it is easier to calculate the reliability of your ally with this congruency. Ideally I would like to get to the point where we can let Israel off their leash and let the region figure out its own problems, but as long as protecting our national security interests involves cleaning up the Cold War mess, Israel is an essential associate Cold War janitor.
Turkey is a better example of a democratic state that shares their middle east values. Russia hates Israel for their own reasons which is not our business. There is nothing necessary about a country whose hard line Orthodoxy believes in their own racial superiority who have never given back to us for all the capital and weapons we supply them. If every country in the world is pissed at you, chances are you are doing something wrong. The victim card is way overplayed and while there is plenty of blame to go around on both sides for their shenanigans, it certainly is nowhere near as one sided as so many here seem to believe. We have bases in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, I dont see the need to support them blindly and hopefully we will hold them more accountable. Remember 10 years ago when an Israeli construction worker ran over an American peace activist with a bulldozer? A bulldozer. How inhumane is that. That takes some serious belief in your own superiority pull that off.