America's problem

Water Cooler
#1

It gets dull watching the homo sapiens stumble around in the dark. I’ll simply show you the answer…however it may require coffee and 20yrs of thought to decipher. Will attempt to use small words, bold, paragraphs, simple logic, please attempt to follow along…

Confused population. Note the title is not problems, plural. Every day we see Americans realizing the symptoms of their problem, “the food supply is poison just vote with your wallet, politics doesn’t serve the people vote for Bernie, click like if you want to stop dolphin deaths, we need term limits, big pharma is exploiting us look at the science dammit”. These are not separate problems, these are symptoms of a single root problem. So what is this mysterious root cause? Easy…

Problem correctly defined. The homo sapiens created a machine, that machine was “the corporation”, a legal entity (it has no physical body, it is immortal). The corporation is artificial intelligence (AI). Note I did not say “like” AI, it is not a metaphor. The legal entity known as the corporation is artificial intelligence, textbook definition. Side note, this is why Stephen Hawking is an idiot; he talks about the risk of it happening, when it exists now.

Key point, programming. The programming of the machine (legal programming, remember it is a legal entity) was “maximize profits”. Note there was no control placed on that. It was not “maximize profits, so long as externalities do not exceed some threashold”, and it was not “maximize long-term profits". The machine is not evil, it simply does what it was programmed to do, using the highest IQ flesh bags as tools. Maximize profits, now, and forever, all other concerns irrelevant.

Oops, it networked. You could think of the S&P500 as being 500 individual AIs, however at some point those formed a network, they are essentially one being now. The consumer staples arm lowers food quality to maximize profit, when you get sick the health care arm gives you magic pills to maximize profit, the media obfuscates science and convinces you of incorrect paths to protect profits. Also this composite AI now reaches out to control the government, the military, and foreign AIs, to join/assimilate with them, to gain further bargaining power against the flesh bags, cannibalize them (increase externalities), to increase profits a wee bit more. Note profits are never fully maximized, until you are fully cannibalized, the machine destroys its creator.

Summary: So there’s your problem; an immortal machine, with unlimited resources, employing the highest IQ human servants, and the government, and the military…to make food of the mean IQ masses. Oh no big problem LOL. Yeah, it’s basically check mate kids.

Solution? The only path to success is logically: take control of the government, despite the machine blocking you with the military, and with your first law (you can only fight it with laws, since it is a legal entity) alter the original programming of the machine (such that the machine will take into account human best interests, using externality accounting is most obvious solution). It will fight back though, and it is stronger and smarter. Long-shot, even if humans grasped their problem, which they don’t. Never the less, there is no other move on the board, and so this is where the analysis ends.

#2

D+

#3

While I dont particularly disagree with the jist of your spiel here, this is why people laugh at you. You know the scene in A Beautiful Mind when John Nash sees the people giving their pens to the guy and he says he sees recognition and the professor says that is actually accomplishment. You remind me of Nash in that scene. Hawking is certainly more intelligent and accomplished than you can even imagine.

That said, I dont disagree. The majority of people I talk to know corporations have destroyed this country, they were useful in building it but now they call all the shots. The US is late stage capitalism at its finest. My dad talked about it since I was a kid, mentioned it was far too late to go back even in the mid 90’s and a revolution was the inevitable end game. Not to say there is a particularly better system, it seems throughout human history way before capitalism those with power abused it to take as much as they could until they pushed too far and were killed by the masses. Not sure why the American obsession with capitalism like it would be any different exists, ideal capitalism is like ideal communism, it doesnt and cannot exist.

#4

I literally have zero idea what I just read, yet I somehow found it oddly satisfying.

#5

Its gonna be a Matrix sequel

#6

PA and I will be storming the Bastille later today. Who’s in?

#7

Either I need to start smoking pot again, or purealpha needs to stop.

#8

I tend to have this effect on people. cheeky

Precisely. One of common ways entities fail; by their strengths, not their weaknesses. The corporate machine is how America shot to the top, so predictably they refuse to except this “strength” is now the source of their problem.

People do realize something is wrong as you point out, see also Trump’s success. They do know it has something to do with the corporations. But anytime anyone talks about putting a leash on the machine, the masses chant “but free markets, it will work out magically, cause free markets, or whatever”. But it will never work out, current state is the result of this belief in putting responsibility to some external entity, which is the corporate AI.

#9

PA, you in favor of universal basic income?

#10

sorry but PA’s argument proceeds on false premises and is therefore invalid. Tangentially related to the truth, but incorrect nonetheless. We’re not dealing with AI, Corporations are not volitional beings. they are directed by human beings. they are a tool. granted they are being used in a way that goes against man’s nature and threatens its long term existence, but that is at the direction of misguided (potentially evil, in some cases, human beings). If the directors of corporations had a basic understanding of why we are here on this earth, they would act differently and the corporation would be used to further virtuous goals.

the world we see around us is a manifestation of a deeply flawed basic philosophy.

edit: reading both our posts again, we’re basically saying the same thing although you use some language that makes no sense and contradicts itself, you have a general grasp on what’s going on.

#11

That means failed.

#12

Nope, this is a common misunderstanding. Anyone with 20+yrs experience in the corporate world understands. The employees answer to the officers, who answer to the board, who answer to the shareholding public, who are the employees. Circular, no human is in charge.

You, the flesh bags, are the tools. Sorry, until you rewrite the programming of the machine to make humans the priority, nothing will change.

#13

Riiiiiiiiight.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3YD5v9w_3M]

#14

Any intelligent species that invents AI, would obviously build in controls so the AI remains their tool, and not vice versa. But no, humans seem to have built the corporation specifically to remove individual’s moral decision making and responsibility, to deliberately pass control to the machine itself.

Pretty dumb move. Now they complain endless on Facebook about “it”, yet do not even grasp what it is…

#15

I see that someone absorbed messages from the film The Corporation.

#16

PA = Erin Brockovich?

#17

PA. it is well understood that corporations are a problem. but they are also the solution as you stated. corporations allow for business continuity which is essential for productivity and economic efficiency. you can maybe tax mature corporations more heavily and force them to stay where they are but in the end they’ll always retain power. to think that management doesn’t call the shots is where you lose me. shareholders have no say compared to management unless you’re a shareholder with more than 10%, which is most cases makes you one of the richest guys in the country. the U.S. will remain an oligarchy with or without the corporation.

rich guys = corporations. enron didn’t go to jail. jeffrey skilling did.

#18

These guys had it mostly figured out. It’s interesting they understood there is no human actually in charge (due to circular command), yet did not logically follow that to “weak” AI.

#19

it only looks inevitable because we’re so far gone. once the reset button is pressed it will be possible for humans to (1) understand that everything in their lives is a manifestation of their underlying philosophy, (2) apply the correct (“good”) life sustaining philosophy to most aspects (at the very least the linchpin aspects) of society, and (3) take care to pass the correct philosophy and values to subsequent generations. Voluntary association in all its manifestations must permeate a good society (including commerce, and businesses). Possible, yes. Likely? Who knows.

#20

Interesting takes TF & PA. I certainly understand where PA comes from but even if humans invented controls I am not sure they would actually hold the corporate structure in check. In fact they have attempted that many times! As long as the corporation can derive more profits it will hire lawyers to look for a loophole to make it happen even if it is directly stated otherwise. Most of the time its even easier. Management doesnt want to do some questionable thing? Large shareholders fire them and put new people in who will. Cant do shady activity in your country? Move it to a various small country in asia that will!

Until we have some way to quantify what we as a society want, it seems like money will continue to control everything. Maybe one day we can design and trade happy points, but now it seems the only measure is money and the goal is to accumulate as much as possible.