I am VP of a local organization that has a lunch speaker once a month to talk about tax, investments, estate planning, & other finance topics. I will be VP this year, President next year, and “President Emeritus” the year after that.
We begin every lunch with a prayer. And those who have been around a while know I’m a religious person, so it doesn’t bother me on that level. However, I wonder if it offends others who don’t say anything. Or if there are people who don’t join because they’re offended. And I wonder if some of the speakers might get offended. (Just to note–It’s a private organization, so we’re not doing anything “wrong” or “illegal”. I think. If we were, I’m sure one of the lawyers would have said something by now.)
How would you guys feel if you went to a meeting and there was a prayer before the speaker started speaking? What would you do?
Obviously, they’ve been doing this for many many years, and it seems like nobody has said anything before. Should I just keep my mouth shut? And if something does need to be said, what’s the best way to say it?
I am not religious at all. I’m not sure if I would be offended but it would make me uncomfortable. Unless I’m in a church, wedding, or someone’s house saying grace before dinner, I do not expect religious acts.
It’s not wrong with regards to legality but I would question if it is an organization I would want to be a part of, based on the values and ideals of the members.
But that’s my own opinion and it doesn’t reflect my views negatively. If other people want to be religious, fine by me.
On another note, I was at a Toastmasters meeting and this lady talked about women empowerment and brought up the 70 cents comment. I tuned out after that.
I’d be indifferent… go along with it, if it doesn’t require any effort on my part.
I guess a question for you is, if you expect people to go along with your beliefs, would you tolerate others? Say the next president of the organization breaks out a prayer rug and ask everyone to face Mecca, would you be cool with that?
i dont like it but i went along with it. im a catholic and i was doing some consulting work at some backwater place in temecula to collect data. one of the dudes was a christian heretic and wanted me to pray with him. at first i told him im already a catholic which is what i usually to say to tell people to fuck off when in reality i just dont want to pray. but he kept insisting that its the same thing and that we’re brother and sing kumbaya. anyways i went along with it, but i thought he was a nut hound.
Why? He’s inviting them there as a guest. A proper guest should stfu about things like this, not complain, and not be a pussy.
I think greenman has every right to bitch slap someone if they were offended about the prayer. You ever gone over to someone’s house and complained about what they’re serving for dinner?
I am not religious. However, if I walk into a club with 99% very religious people, it’s stupid to expect them all to change because I might be offended as the minority.
A proper host takes guests into consideration. He said nobody has complained, not sure what the aimless rant is about.
There’s a nice wide swath of unoccupied middle area between the identity politics of trying to eclipse everybody’s rights in favor of a few and ignoring the minority groups completely because you have a right to. It’s the kind of pigheaded binary point of view that has landed us here.
Anyhow, Greenie, its cool that you’re considering this. I’d just mention it nicely the way you did (if you feel it should be brought up) by saying basically what you said here, ie you’re religious but just had this thought and asking whoever in charge what their thoughts are and leaving it at that. Maybe they consider it later, maybe they don’t, no harm no foul.
I don’t think it is a big deal. I do think, though, that it can often be read as creating a less-welcoming environment. Lot’s of religions (or religious people) have a history of being less tolerant; and that intolerance can come off in subtle (often unintentional) ways that folks engrained in it don’t always realize.
edit: I second BS…props to you for thinking through it.
i dont think we should think of the plight of minorities. imo they should adapt to the dominant culture. its what i would do. if they dont like it, then they can get out and form thier own lil niche group where they are the majority.
is the “local organization” an organization affiliated with a particular religion? if so, nobody would think twice about a prayer. if not, it is strange. if you’re inclined to say a prayer, it’s best done privately or with your particular table, something like that. a public prayer should suit the audience and their expectations. my experience growing up in religious environs.
This is definitely the Asian countries approach to culture and minorities. Then again, those places are second tier on a good day and the US is stronger from moving past the way it dealt with minorities in the 50’s.
you can make the argument in absoilute terms but in relative terms of economic power, that just isnt the case. sicne the 1950s the us has been in relative decline. since the millenial generation, the us has been in steep decline. and we have the most progressive libtards in our history giving share to china.
the fact that the us is implementing tariffs is a sign that they are uncompetitive though imo its good policy when you are losing. anyways its still a long way to go and it can go eitehr way, but imo china has the edge. they have the population, they are starting to win on innovation, and now all they need is more money and that usually takes time.
anyways im just not convinced that many cultures under 1 roof is more productive than a single culture. in fact i think that mixed cultures is coutner productive. the us’s success is more of an exception than a rule.china’s policy to assimilate others is the smarter move than 1 of tolerance.
This is where it mostly falls apart. CN isn’t winning on innovation anywhere. Chinese designed products have roughly 0% market share of high tech high dollar items in the western consumer basket. Their growth was capital deepening which has now faded, mercantilism which is now being contested, cheap labor which is now increasingly in the past and by aggregating heavy pollutants. These are not economic miracles, simply mathematical facts. They are now on the doorstep of contending with the effects of the one child policy and their GDP growth since spiking to 15% in 2007 is now 6%, projected by most shops to fall to around 2-3% within a decade having reached a lofty per capita GDP of almost $9k.
China has been winning for ages. From paper to printing to gunpowder to the compass, China has invented as much as anyone. Fortunateley for the world, China’s benevolence led it to use these inventions for good deeds like fireworks and scroll painting rather than conquest, even though their intellectual property was carelessly pirated by other countries.
Too bad their companies can’t practice a religion of their choosing like they can in the States.
lets assume long term growth rates for china is 6% vs us at 2%. that means china will eclipse us by 2030 using current gdp as the base.
unless china slows down like japan, i just dont see how we can win. i also dont see how the us will revert back to anything greater than 3%. in these things anything goes, so i could be wrong.
gdp per capita is not really as useful, the us is not even top 10, and the top 1 gdp per capita is lichenstein or something de minimis. gdp per capita growth however is better and china has grown far faster than the us. from the 1960’s china’s grown 100x vs us at 40x.
us still has most of the money in the world though at 30% vs china’s 15%, but us is far more overvalued than china and china is growing faster and taking the world stage.
Why would you open a ridiculous argument by assuming a long term growth rate that is completely out of consensus. I just pointed out consensus across shops is China at 2-3% by 2030 on population slump and end of capital deepening. They’re clearly slowing, why would you just roll the current number forward and ignore second derivative? Lets just assume a ridiculous number with no basis, then build a line of reasoning off of it.
Start by realizing China’s population is expected to decline from 2029 onward and the young workforce as a percent of the population has already begun to significantly decline as they have a one child policy magnified boomer problem.
GDP per capita is super useful. Sure there are small outliers but even in those cases, ask someone in Monaco if they want to live in Sudan. Among major countries the implications are obvious, it reflects the average standard of living and development.
