It is said that they were approved before the government loans and are now due and about to be paid. I say the company should be declared insolvent and damn the cost to investors if the company is so arrogant and stupid to go ahead with these payments under the present circumstances. Any opposing views?
I read the article on wsj.com and apparently there were contractual agreements in place. I hate it as much as everyone else but there is no way around it. Sucks we get stuck paying bonuses to a bunch of morons…
If you signed a guaranteed bonus with your employer and then they tried to renege on you a year later, would you agree with them? End of discussion.
If you signed a guaranteed bonus with your employer and then they tried to renege on you a year later, would you agree with them? End of discussion.
I agree with JTLD that the bonuses are contractual obligations. I agree with the view that they are not deserved. Therefore, I think the government should let AIG die. Delete the job functions and the contracts expire. Millions have lost their jobs so whats special about these 2-cent buffoons? LET THE FVCKING AIG DIE YOU ASZHOLES!
JohnThainsLimoDriver Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > If you signed a guaranteed bonus with your > employer and then they tried to renege on you a > year later, would you agree with them? End of > discussion. If you worked for a company and didn’t get paid yet and they went bankrupt, can you do anything about that? You lie up like everyone else who got burnt. End of discussion. It was a bailout to save the economy, not a bailout to employee bonus.
The bankruptcy analogy doesn’t work. It’s a contract. Interesting internal document from AIG, unrelated to the bonus discussion: http://www.scribd.com/doc/13112282/Aig-Systemic-090309
brianr Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The bankruptcy analogy doesn’t work. > > It’s a contract. > > Interesting internal document from AIG, unrelated > to the bonus discussion: > > http://www.scribd.com/doc/13112282/Aig-Systemic-09 > 0309 WOW, it’s a contract?! hmmm… is CDS not a contract? isn’t your bank loan from the bank a contract? isn’t the money you deposited into the bank a contract? everything is a contract… so you are telling me that if you bought CDS, or any other contract for that matter. (A gym membership for a year even!) and the company goes bankrupt, they still have to pay you back?.. SURE I GUESS THEY HAVE, WITH WHAT MONEY! they should just give a conditional offer, money will only be injected if these parties who hold the bonus contract retract from it. ENOUGH SAID. These executives are pleading hard with the government to keep AIG, but is it for the betterment of the economy. I see a conflict of interest.
They didn’t go bankrupt. Get your facts straight.
whystudy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > so you are telling me that if you bought CDS, or > any other contract for that matter. (A gym > membership for a year even!) and the company goes > bankrupt, they still have to pay you back?.. SURE > I GUESS THEY HAVE, WITH WHAT MONEY! they should > just give a conditional offer, money will only be > injected if these parties who hold the bonus > contract retract from it. ENOUGH SAID. Again with another bankruptcy reference. A capital infusion from the government IS NOT THE SAME AS A BANKRUPTCY.
brianr Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > whystudy Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > so you are telling me that if you bought CDS, > or > > any other contract for that matter. (A gym > > membership for a year even!) and the company > goes > > bankrupt, they still have to pay you back?.. > SURE > > I GUESS THEY HAVE, WITH WHAT MONEY! they > should > > just give a conditional offer, money will only > be > > injected if these parties who hold the bonus > > contract retract from it. ENOUGH SAID. > > Again with another bankruptcy reference. A capital > infusion from the government IS NOT THE SAME AS A > BANKRUPTCY. Hilarious. I’ve never seen someone argue a point so blatantly wrong before. Guess he won’t become an indepent partner anytime soon.
Get YOUR facts straight, I wasn’t arguing about the fact that they are able to claim the bonus, i am arguing the fact that they should have allow for the bankruptcy or change the provision of the injection to only allow it to go through so these people won’t get their money. “so you are telling me that if you bought CDS, or any other contract for that matter. (A gym membership for a year even!) and the company goes bankrupt, they still have to pay you back?.. SURE I GUESS THEY HAVE, WITH WHAT MONEY! they should just give a conditional offer, money will only be injected if these parties who hold the bonus contract retract from it. ENOUGH SAID. These executives are pleading hard with the government to keep AIG, but is it for the betterment of the economy. I see a conflict of interest.” READ THE CONDITONAL OFFER! AND THE FACT THAT I SAID THEY HAVE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST TO KEEP THE COMPANY ALIVE TO THESE PEOPLE GET PAID. Hilarious, I’ve never seen someone so stupid and not be able to read before. Shouldn’t it be JohnThainsRetardedLimoDriver.
whystudy, Follow the link I posted to get an idea of why a bankruptcy was avoided. If AIG would have gone the route of Lehman the fallout would have been tremendous… hence the US government stepped into prevent such an occurence. Terms should have been included from the onset to limit employee compensation and eliminate bonuses but at this point it’s too late.
The AIG people are clearly not that talented, and can’t find jobs anywhere else. They are not special, nor is their bonus contract. Want to see if AIG is bankrupt or not? The fed calls in its loans! Let the company or, better yet, the employees sue the government for their bonus money. Ha. They’ll all be old or dead before it gets settled. Let em die.
whystudy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Hilarious, I’ve never seen someone so stupid and > not be able to read before. Shouldn’t it be > JohnThainsRetardedLimoDriver. lol
I think payment of employees is simply first in line. If the contract for bonuses is considered a contract to employees, it takes precedence over contract for CDS, and end of story. This is why it seems to make sense to let these companies fall into banruptcy and then have the government recapitalize them after bankruptcy has been declared. This would allow new contracts to be negotiated.
TheEconomist Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The AIG people are clearly not that talented, and > can’t find jobs anywhere else. They are not > special, nor is their bonus contract. No one is arguing this, in fact we are all in agreement about this. The problem is the US government cannot move in and change the rules on every whim that pops up. Things need to be spelt out to the letter of the law when the capital is given. If this does not occur you will see a reluctance to take money when it is truly needed. Everyone has admitted that it was a mistake to not have compensation clauses included from the get go but at this point all that can be done is to not give any further bonuses. It’s a terrible situation and I disagree with it but that’s just the way it is.
When you have to resort to name calling you’ve basically admitted that you just got pwned.
This is a topic I wondered about for some time. Why doesn’t a firm file for chapter 11 in a financially difficult position because of employee claims? I know that fixed employee compensation such as monthly salary are quite high in the priority list where I work, but bonuses are rather low, certainly below other debtor claims, as I have personally witnessed. Is this different in the US? I was only able to find that wages have some priority (www.abanet.org/labor/lel-aba-annual/papers/2005/049.pdf), but I was not able to identify whether wages would include bonuses or not. If bonuses are claims that can be suspended or renegotiated in chapter 11, why doesn AGI file for chapter 11 then? Or would chapter 11 still cause an unaccaptable systemic shock?
the AIG saviour, saved European Banking!