volante99 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The whole system is messed up. America’s future > isn’t in shambles because of my generation’s > entitlement problem. My generation’s problem lies > in the fact that we’ve become too reliant on the > old ways. From age two on, we were told that if we > didn’t go to college, our life would be oh so > awful, and we’d never amount to anything. Now that > we’ve graduated, we learn that society places ZERO > value on education, other than having the prereq > BA letters on your rez. And so we’re thrust into > the world where otherwise brilliant kids go work > as part-time English teachers in Korea or worse > yet call center operators, most of whom will never > amount to anything career wise. > > Just think how great America would be if we put > less emphasis on getting some pointless degree, > and more on entrepreneurship, job skills, and > doing something you actually ENJOY. So if you want > to bitch about my generation’s false entitlements, > look in the mirror, because our values are really > just a reflection of your own. IMHO you are totally contradicting youself. To my knowledge the american dream cliche does not say 1. go to college 2. get job offers thrown at you 3. work in secure perpetuity in a job you love. When I think of the american dream i think of OPPERTUNITY. This inherently means the possibility of creating one’s own destiny… not waiting for someone to hand it to you. Corp monkey != american dream / ghetto kid who invents bejeweled grills that sell millions is. The job market is a ever changing beast and to think that what worked 50 years ago will work today is absurd. I bet there were people with similar complaints 50 years ago, complaining how they were unprepared for the ‘new economy’. The same will surely happen in another 10 or 20 years- its just how it is so you can deal with it or keep looking for the dream that went poof 5 years ago. Maybe my impression is wrong but to me the american dream is deeply based in success via stubborn work ethic, unrelenting ambition and a strong sense of entrepreneurship. Three bits this guy clearly lacks.
Interesting. If you figure that he sent out 4-5 letters, week after week, for 5 months, that would imply about 100 letters (20 weeks, 5 letters a week), of which 1 job offer materialized (which was later turned down). That’s about the rate that people have been quoting. So he’s doing ok on the statistics side, he just needs to increase the turnover. If he is tailoring his resume and cover letters to each job and doing research on the companies, then 4-5 a week isn’t quite as bad as it first sounds, though it is way too low, particularly since a recent college graduate isn’t pigeonholed as much as someone with experience, and therefore can apply to a larger variety of positions. We don’t know what else he is doing at his parent’s place, so we can’t fully judge him. Is he sitting back playing Wii? Or is he developing new and more salable skills? Liberal arts does help you learn to think, but it doesn’t teach you something to do. So liberal arts types have a harder time figuring out what it is that they can offer the marketplace that the marketplace demands. Trade school graduates don’t have this problem. They know they can weld, give injections of the wrong drugs prescribed by the doctor, etc… Liberal arts people are often better at writing and tasks that require language skills. Even the mathy liberal arts types (I was a liberal arts grad who did physics) tend to be stronger writers and communicators. — There is a trouble with a generation of kids raised on the idea that you get praise for just showing up. Trophies for all participants. Parents getting on the phone to chew out their professors and get them fired if their little angel gets a B+ or less. It’s a bit of a shock when they realize that an undergraduate degree, even from a reputable college, doesn’t immediately qualify you to be POTUS or something similar. – This was the line that caught my attention: “‘The conversation I’m going to have with my parents now that I’ve turned down this job is more of a concern to me than turning down the job,’ he said.” — On the other hand, the first job can pigeonhole you for life. Finance majors who take an IT position suddenly find that it’s incredibly difficult to move to the front office. If you think that there is a chance that by holding out for something better, you can avoid being pigeonholed, there is an argument to be made. When you take a job, you will undoubtedly be working very long hours to learn what you need to do to keep the job. If you take a job thinking “I’ll just be applying in my lunch hour and get out,” think again. Very likely you will be working through lunch and getting home late and too tired to write a half decent cover letter. None of this is to say that this kid probably needs to increase the output, but there are a lot of things that are or are not going on behind the scenes that we don’t know about before we can declare this kid to be a total loser.
Dude, when I was unemployed I was sending out 100+ applications a day. That’s not an exaggeration. My last two positions (and my current one) were scored via cold applications on company websites, no connections. Then again, my personal philosophy has always been “throw enough sh!t against the wall and something’s bound to stick.” I’m not a strategizer, I work hard, and if that doesn’t do it, then I work harder.
I’d also like to take issue with the “millennials are a bunch of entitled whiners” mentality. While there are unfortunate number of people like our friend Scott, for every one of those there are 5 more busting their hump. Just look at all the BOMs here trying to get ahead by taking the CFA.
Aside from this senseless discussion over what the American Dream is or isn’t, I love this flurry of typos. “Oppertunity”, “librul”. Keep going, folks, and write like this in your “rez’s”. It will increase my chances. And by the way, the “American Dream” is so outdated. What about the “Russian Dream” or the “Sinti Dream”? Those who really want to get ahead don’t need no BS tags like that. They just work hard, use their elbows and backstabbing and make their way. And when they are at the top (over scores of bodies or not) and are featured in the Fortune people will admire them. Right, Bernie?
I’m a millenial (I think), so I’m obviously not throwing out my own generation. I believe there’s a very wide dispersion of work ethics. My classmates in the MSF program and my CFA cohort were the hardest working individuals I’ve known of any age group. I just think there are also a bunch of panzies out there too. That being said, if most of the older generation individuals I work under in finance had to come out fresh in the job market that exists today, odds are they would alter their perspective.
Black Swan Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > and my CFA cohort I second that!
I’m not making any generalizations about any cohort; every generation has its group of losers - just noting that the article’s title is horribly disingenuous… even somewhat offensive.
akanska Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > IMHO you are totally contradicting youself. To my > knowledge the american dream cliche does not say > 1. go to college 2. get job offers thrown at you > 3. work in secure perpetuity in a job you love. > When I think of the american dream i think of > OPPERTUNITY. This inherently means the > possibility of creating one’s own destiny… not > waiting for someone to hand it to you. Corp > monkey != american dream / ghetto kid who invents > bejeweled grills that sell millions is. > > The job market is a ever changing beast and to > think that what worked 50 years ago will work > today is absurd. I bet there were people with > similar complaints 50 years ago, complaining how > they were unprepared for the ‘new economy’. The > same will surely happen in another 10 or 20 years- > its just how it is so you can deal with it or keep > looking for the dream that went poof 5 years ago. > Maybe my impression is wrong but to me the > american dream is deeply based in success via > stubborn work ethic, unrelenting ambition and a > strong sense of entrepreneurship. Three bits this > guy clearly lacks. Wow, did you even read my post? The only relevant point you made was essentially my exact same point.
the term “American Dream” was made up by James Truslow Adams: “The American Dream is that dream of a land in which life should be better and richer and fuller for every man, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement. It is a difficult dream for the European upper classes to interpret adequately, also too many of us ourselves have grown weary and mistrustful of it. It is not a dream of motor cars and high wages merely, but a dream of social order in which each man and each woman shall be able to attain to the fullest stature of which they are innately capable, and be recognized by others for what they are, regardless of the fortuitous circumstances of birth or position.” It’s not even about monetary success. It’s about performing to your maximum capacity in whatever you do. It was American propaganda produced in the midst of the Great Depression to lift spirits in hopes of preventing a societal implosion. It was remind people that a middle class can still be a middle class without SUVs with DVD players and in-ground pools. The American Dream is Freedom, not Opportunity. And this guy is livin it, trust me! Consumerism, conspicious consumption and the “Keeping Up With The Joneses” mentality has turned the definition of the American Dream from “The ability to do what you want without conformity or societal influence and the ability to achieve your maximum potential in job or academics or whatever” to “becoming the most ‘spendiest’ consumer you can be”.
Stiff1 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Aside from this senseless discussion over what the > American Dream is or isn’t, I love this flurry of > typos. “Oppertunity”, “librul”. Keep going, folks, > and write like this in your “rez’s”. It will > increase my chances. You mean that’s not how you spell librul? I thought the red line under the word just meant my computer was Republican and didn’t like my use of the word. Jeepers.
volante99 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The whole system is messed up. America’s future > isn’t in shambles because of my generation’s > entitlement problem. Solid post overall, but this is the crux. Labeling Gen Y the entitlement generation is the greatest media fiction of all time. The only things I feel entitled to are a mountain of debt as we transfer wealth from my generation to the Baby Boomers who feel “entitled” to bloated social security and medicare benefits, and worse job prospects as a result of corporate outsourcing programs run by Baby Boomer managers. Let’s get this straight, Gen Y is the real victim here, but people won’t wake up to that fact until the Baby Boomers are dead and we have to live with the consequences of the untenable debt load and anemic economy they’re going to leave us. I look at a lot of public companies and recently came across a company that specializes in outsourcing advisory. You ain’t seen nothin’ yet. We’ve lost a lot of IT and manufacturing jobs already, but the next wave is coming: knowledge process outsourcing. Law, marketing, finance, accounting, a lot of these jobs are going to go away as well. A college degree is already pretty much worthless, but we’re going to see a massive polarization occur where only degrees from top 5 schools hold any value, and people with other credentials (including degrees from normal schools) are basically struggling to survive. We’re already there to some extent, but it’s going to get much worse in the coming decades. Entitlement generation? Entitled to what? There won’t be anything left.
I do agree that the baby boom generation is the real entitlement generation. They just leverage themselves and and vote themselves public benefits, tax breaks, everything, and then have Gen X and Y pay the bill. The problem is that the following generations X and Y just watched them consume and are under pressure to “do better than their parents,” and most of us just figured that the way the boomers did it is the way to get ahead.
bromion Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > volante99 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > The whole system is messed up. America’s future > > isn’t in shambles because of my generation’s > > entitlement problem. > > Solid post overall, but this is the crux. Labeling > Gen Y the entitlement generation is the greatest > media fiction of all time. The only things I feel > entitled to are a mountain of debt as we transfer > wealth from my generation to the Baby Boomers who > feel “entitled” to bloated social security and > medicare benefits, and worse job prospects as a > result of corporate outsourcing programs run by > Baby Boomer managers. Let’s get this straight, Gen > Y is the real victim here, but people won’t wake > up to that fact until the Baby Boomers are dead > and we have to live with the consequences of the > untenable debt load and anemic economy they’re > going to leave us. > > I look at a lot of public companies and recently > came across a company that specializes in > outsourcing advisory. You ain’t seen nothin’ yet. > We’ve lost a lot of IT and manufacturing jobs > already, but the next wave is coming: knowledge > process outsourcing. Law, marketing, finance, > accounting, a lot of these jobs are going to go > away as well. A college degree is already pretty > much worthless, but we’re going to see a massive > polarization occur where only degrees from top 5 > schools hold any value, and people with other > credentials (including degrees from normal > schools) are basically struggling to survive. > We’re already there to some extent, but it’s going > to get much worse in the coming decades. > > Entitlement generation? Entitled to what? There > won’t be anything left. +100…Not only that, but we will have to carry the burden of an aging boomer population that will outnumber the working age populace, except illegal immigrants.
volante99 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It was a huge mistake for this kid to turn down a > 40K job. > > That said, the “American Dream” so to speak really > is getting harder and harder to achieve with each > successive generation. We no longer compete > nationally, but globally. Millions upon millions > of kids all over the world with dreams of landing > even the most lowly job in finance. This is > something the baby boomers will never quite > understand. > > Thirty years ago any kid with a decent GPA and the > necessary cash had a 50/50 chance of getting into > a top MBA. Now, that finance degree BARELY > qualifies you for a $12/hr assistant TO the > regional manager job. The average salary for new > grads keeps going down, while the cost of college > and living in general has skyrocketed. “Career > advancement” is a joke as most corporations are > leaning out on the top end and would rather can > your ass before they have to promote you. > > The whole system is messed up. America’s future > isn’t in shambles because of my generation’s > entitlement problem. My generation’s problem lies > in the fact that we’ve become too reliant on the > old ways. From age two on, we were told that if we > didn’t go to college, our life would be oh so > awful, and we’d never amount to anything. Now that > we’ve graduated, we learn that society places ZERO > value on education, other than having the prereq > BA letters on your rez. And so we’re thrust into > the world where otherwise brilliant kids go work > as part-time English teachers in Korea or worse > yet call center operators, most of whom will never > amount to anything career wise. > > Just think how great America would be if we put > less emphasis on getting some pointless degree, > and more on entrepreneurship, job skills, and > doing something you actually ENJOY. So if you want > to bitch about my generation’s false entitlements, > look in the mirror, because our values are really > just a reflection of your own. My dad never went to college, so it was real important that I go. So I graduate, I call him up long distance, I say “Dad, now what?” He says, “Get a job.” Now I’m 25, make my yearly call again. I say Dad, “Now what?” He says, “I don’t know, get married.” We’re a generation of men raised by women. I’m wondering if another woman is really the answer we need.
I was reading today that 80% of men cheat in America; the rest cheat in Europe.
timotimo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > My dad never went to college, so it was real > important that I go. So I graduate, I call him up > long distance, I say “Dad, now what?” He says, > “Get a job.” Now I’m 25, make my yearly call > again. I say Dad, “Now what?” He says, “I don’t > know, get married.” We’re a generation of men > raised by women. I’m wondering if another woman is > really the answer we need. Oh boy, does that ever ring true. It’s been the same father/son dynamic for me too since I was 16… “Get a driver’s license yet?” “Get a car yet?” “Graduate from college yet?” “Get a job yet?” He’s gonna pull the “Get a girlfriend yet?” on me next Father’s Day phone call, I just know it.
Haha, nice Fight Club reference
Why on earth does a 24 year old have a life insurance policy? Who the heck relies upon him for money?