Ant and Grasshopper

Where is Iteracum ??

Wrong quote my angry, young friend. See dvictr’s next post:

the sneaky slimy spiders are artificially holding down the price of silver and dumping gold plated tungsten bars onto the market to supress precious metals!

Hmm. It’s pretty unfair to pick out a small set of high income/1%/conservative people and claim their negative actions have are material to the broad category of people. Hardly any high income people are actually rates traders, let alone libor manipulators.

Imagine if I mouthed off against poor people and said that they are responsible for murder and robbery, thus requiring that we spend more money on police. Almost all murder and robbery is commited by people with relatively low income. This does not mean that low income and violent crime are synonymous.

Sure, the original post was a bit… strange. But let’s not make questionable generalizations because of this.

You mean the same way it isn’t fair to cherry pick some poor people (crackheads, welfare moms, etc.) and classify the other non-1%-ers as lazy bums just wanting to feed of the hard dignified work of the 1%? If that’s your point, I’ll agree with you.

But remember, I didn’t say “all the ants.” I said “the best-set ants.” Sure, the 1% isn’t chock full of traders and bankers and financial types who have enormous incentives to manipulate the system and who apparently only do so if they have gotten caught. There are doctors and lawyers and business owners in there.

But take a look at the top 0.1%, and you’ll find that it’s mostly finance and banker types, plus a few owners of companies that really hit it big (the Bill Gates’, Sam Waltons, Larry Ellisons’, etc.).

The grasshopper and the ant story is a good parable because it says that the consequence of not working and thinking ahead is hard times. That’s a worthwhile lesson for kids because not applying yourself is likely to cause problems and hard times.

But it is flawed logic to jump to the conclusion that those who are going through hard times have by that circumstance alone clearly not planned ahead and worked. There are MANY other things that can lead to hard times, not just not saving for the winter.

Maybe people saved but saved the wrong things. Maybe people thought that savings put in the market or real estate was like saving for the future… and lots of bankers and mutual fund and mortgage broker types (the types you think of as in the 1%) were happily telling them so.

Most of the anger towards the 1% is actually not so focused on the “the rich” in general. It’s more focused on the banking/hedge fund/trading class than on people who actually run businesses and hire people. Contrast the anger against the software programmers and gadget-makers vs. anger at bankers and traders.

And remember, to get into many of the professions that lead you to the 1%, you have to get with the right people, go to the right schools, get the right designations, look the right part. When it starts to become clear that the opportunities are stacked against you, and all that’s left are a bunch of minimum wage jobs even if you apply yourself and go to college or whatnot, it’s not irrational to say “well, I’m going to enjoy life while I can, and when the hard times come, we’re just going to go chop off the heads of the 1% and we’ll enjoy everything that they’ve accumulated for a bit.” I hope it doesn’t come to that, but it’s not an irrational way for people to think when opportunities for ordinary people to have jobs that can support a decent middle class life are no longer around.

i forgot the kicker

To enslave the ants and grasshoppers!

I have I ever told you that I think you’re pretty awesome, no homo.

Wow. Just wow… I leave you guys alone for just a few days b/c I’m trying to get my swag on and this is what happens… CvM posts a fine script for “A Bugs Life-2 - Shitz Gonna Get Real” and you guys trash it. Shame.

The first part isn’t mentioned enough. How many people were told that investing in Freddie Mac for example was more or less risk-free?

The 2nd part i don’t agree with. There is a HUGE jump from not having an elite financial pedigree to minimum wage ihatemylife jobs. All of my friends who went to mediocre engineering schools have jobs that started in the upper 40s and 50s. My little brother has a few of friends who went to community college doing some sort of IT things and have solid jobs now as well

You are right about point two above, except that only about 1/3 of the population even gets to an undergraduate degree, and from there, decent middle class jobs are by no means easy to secure and hold. My point here was the hollowing out of the middle class and the hopes of being able to attain this without herculean efforts. There still is a middle class, but it is getting ever more precarious.

Surveys show that Americans are willing to tolerate substantial inequality provided that they feel that the game is meritocratic, fair, and not rigged. It’s when hard work doesn’t get rewarded that people either get despondent or angry or both.

This may be a broad generalization, but people in general do not enjoy hard work. I understand what bchad is saying that if the incentives are not there then people will not work hard, but I think that by and large the incentives are there but people just don’t like to bust ass. My fiance’s dad is an electrician, didn’t finish high school, has made a good living and provided a better future for his family. Those jobs are still there. My neighbor is a contractor and busts his ass and makes a good living. A problem is that in the US people are taught that success is defined by having a decent paying white collar job, when in reality financial success is attainable through many avenues.

Obviously, everyone on this board has a very skewed perspective on what success is based on their CFA participation.

wow people. Can we all just lighten up? It’s like a massive fuse ready to blow these days here in the water cooler. I thought the story was amusing. Stop taking everything so literally.

stormy, you should be banned. None of your posts do anything except curse, stir up hatred or describe violent acts upon regular AF members.

You make a good point, brainwash. Maybe what we need to do is restore the sense that jobs like being an electrician or plumber or something are honorable jobs worthy of respect. These jobs can support a family and are difficult to offshore. Of course, if everyone becomes an electrician now, it will be hard to keep those prices high, but I do think that maybe there are jobs out there that pay well enough that people should feel fine in taking.

I know my college educated friends would feel very unsuccessful if they were plumbers at the end of the day, but a plumber who can recite Shakespeare might not be a bad thing, particularly for lonely stay-at-home moms.

Prithee, shall I undertake / to restore your sink its former state. / Thus clean and pretty, fair as your face. / And in this moment my heart doth race. / Pounding, but for the sake of you. / Thine eyes speak clearly of what I do. / First shall I clear this be-longed pipe. / Thence make we plans to meet this night.

Not sure if I ever told you this, but I think you might be the most guilt ridden self hater I’ve ever come across, no homo. There are countless examples on this forum of people who prove this little yarn patently false, me included. I came from nothing, I went to the wrong school, and knew none of the right people. but by some miracle i’m in the 1% and i work one of those impossible niches to get into in the finance industry. my situation defies the laws of your reality, so it had to be a miracle, right? it had nothing to do with hard work, ability, and determination? and don’t talk about luck. i tried, failed, and learned from my mistakes 1,000 times before i made it. what you call luck, i call preparation.

i’m not sure exactly what it is with you, but there is something about you that I believe makes you hate success and ability. i think that’s why you have to explain away any sort of success with “advantageous circumstances, knowing the right people, succeeding on the backs of others”, etc.

Go away, unthinking troll. I never said that success doesn’t require work, and I don’t begrudge people success.

What I do begrudge are people like you who think that their success is solely a result of their hard work and that anyone who hasn’t achieved their level of success just didn’t want it enough or try hard enough. They use their success as a justification for dumping on the rest. That may be true for a lot of people (not trying hard enough), but there are plenty of people and businesses that work hard and for some reason don’t make it. They are not bad people, necessarily.

It may not surprise you that I have some friends who are very liberal, even socialist, probably. What may surprise you is that when I am in their company, I point out that people need to be rewarded for their work and willingness to take risks and should be allowed to keep substantial portions of their wealth/earnings, whether from work or from luck. But I think there is a balance that needs to be struck, and I think the Rawlsian version of distributive justice makes a lot of sense as a guideline.

Theres plenty of room for reasonable people to argue about where the line should be drawn, but your position thatre is no line is just self-congratulatory. Go ahead and congratulate yourself. But don’t expect us to open the champagne for you too.

By the way, I’m happy you’ve bettered yourself, and been able to take advantage of opportunities and expand on them through your own hard work.

Well, since the original post is clearly US centric, I suppose all of us US citizens can feel lucky that we live in the US and have stuff to be worried about people appropriating. Please, US people bring up “Well, I could have been born in Norway, Vatican City, etc”. Count yourselves lucky and go get that money, if that’s what you want to do.

My success is solely the result of my hard work. This is where you just don’t get it. Nobody put in the countless hours of work on my behalf. Anything I’ve received in value, I paid in kind with value I provided to others. I earned my success and it belongs to nobody else but me. This fundamental truth is what makes your philosophy evil and mine good in the true sense of the word. I demand nothing from others that i haven’t earned. You think it’s ok to confiscate what others have earned to help a brother out. You think a little bit of slavery is ok. Slavery even if it’s part time, is evil. There is no middle ground, a little poison will still kill you.

I am on the side of anyone who refuses to take what they haven’t earned. I hold a ditch digger who understands this reality miles above you and your friends. Some of my best friends are ditch diggers.

Are any of them located in the greater Philly area by any chance? I want to run electrical wires to a couple of out buildings at my place and the electrician’s quote for the trenching portion is a bit high in my opinion.

haha Turd channeling Rand again!..may i ask how old you are Turd? just curious


Not taking sides, but from what I’ve seen, one single man alone can’t do great things without some help.

He needs people to help him execute his vision, his idea, to steer him in a direction, or help as in some luck in timing, being at the right place with the right people that gave him a good opportunity and a chance to prove himself. You’re not going to convince me some guy just randomly said “oh I’m going to open a PE fund and make huge money, and then goes to do EVERY SINGLE thing himself without any help at all” BS

When you watch the oscars or any prestigious award, the recipient is always " i want to start by thanking X and Y…etc."

You never hear: "I am a total genius that did everything by myself and no one helped me, and I earned everything by myself. My success is solely the result of my hard work. I earned my success and it belongs to nobody else but me. "

That’s only because you haven’t heard me give an acceptance speach yet.

-jk, jk