Attack against French Magazine

[Black_Swan]

I don’t doubt that the magazine may have had a slant in who they ridiculed. But in my mind it doesn’t change the broader picture.

[Matt_Likes_Analysis]

@Black_Swan

@Matt_Likes_Analysis

nowhere in the Koran does it say that killing is okay so any true Muslim would denounce fundamentalist violence. fatwas and violence are promoted through Sharia law. true muslims must denounce Sharia law and accept the word of the Koran as the be all and end all of their religion if they wish to peacefully move forward. similar to how protestants wished to remove the power of the church from dictating how to be a christian, muslims must basically dismantle Iran and start over.

MLA, Muslims in Kuwait must really love when you tell them what being a true Muslim is. As the one true arbitor of what is Muslim, you should tell the people of Egypt , Mauritania , Sudan, Afghanistan , Iran , Iraq, the Maldives, Pakistan , Qatar, Saudi Arabia , Yemen , and certain regions in Indonesia , Malaysia, Nigeria , and the United Arab Emirates about their mustake surrounding Sharia law. It’s gonna be a tough sell in Saudi Arabia, you know with them having Mecca and all. And since Iran basically is Shia, have fun telling Muslims everywhere that the Shia sect must be dismantled from power, I really doubt that’ll cause any form of conflict.

“And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter… and fight them until fitnah is no more, and religion is for Allah.” (Quran 2:191)

“But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.” (Quaran 9:5)

2:191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. 2:193 And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. 2:216 Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not. 2:244 Fight in the way of Allah, and know that Allah is Hearer, Knower. 5:33 The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom.

According to Reuven Firestone, Ibn Kathir held that four of the “sword verses” refer specifically to “four types of people against whom the Muslims are obligated to fight: 9:5 refers to fighting the idolaters; 9:29 refers to fighting the Scriptuaries until they pay the poll tax; 9:73 refers to fighting those who outwardly appear as Muslims but who actually oppose Muhammad and the community of Islam; and 49:9 refers to fighting Muslims who unjustly oppress other Muslims.”

all of these quotes support self-defense and eradication of non-believers. the first chapter of the Koran blatantly states that Christians and Jews should be treated as confused brothers, never killed. it states that our god is the same and since they believe in Allah but in the case of Christians, worship the wrong prophet, and in the case of the Jews, “have corrupted the text”, meaning they worhip the wrong literature, they should not be harmed but convinced to worship the correct prophet but never through means that violate muslim to muslim interaction (e.g. no killing, torture, intimidation, etc). islam says go to war with atheists, not christians and jews. since the west is founded on Christianity and Judaism, we are chrisitans and jews. going to war with us, uninstigated, is a great sin according to the Koran.

i’m not telling them to do anything but if muslims wan’t their people and religion to survive the next 1000 years, reformation is necessary. radical islam is becoming islam and islam as it currently stands on the world stage is incompatible with today’s multicultural and globalized society and the extreme economic and military dominance of the non-islam world. looking 1000 years out, many more muslims will die in a scenario without reformation than a scenario with reformation.

[geo]

^ The west is secular. Not Christian. This is why they hate us. They hate the secularism of democracy. Only the US remains a de facto Christian state.

[Matt_Likes_Analysis]

we don’t need to get into a discussion about the technical religion of each Western country but the vast majority of those in the West identify as Christian, Jewish or Muslim, with a very small minority of proclaimed Atheists, Buddhists and Hindus.

radical muslims just attacked a country that is self-idenified as being 90%-95% Christian, Jewish or Muslim. any muslim who accepts murder of their “brothers” is not muslim and will find whatever hell they believe exists.

[former_trader]

@Black_Swan

I don’t doubt that the magazine may have had a slant in who they ridiculed. But in my mind it doesn’t change the broader picture.

One group tries to limit freedom by using violence.

Another group tries to limit freedom by using their influence. It’s less visible, but real nonetheless.

Both are dangerous for freedom. People don’t have the ball$ to talk about the latter.

[geo]

@Matt_Likes_Analysis

we don’t need to get into a discussion about the technical religion of each Western country but the vast majority of those in the West identify as Christian, Jewish or Muslim, with a very small minority of proclaimed Atheists, Buddhists and Hindus.

radical muslims just attacked a country that is self-idenified as being 90%-95% Christian, Jewish or Muslim. any muslim who accepts murder of their “brothers” is not muslim and will find whatever hell they believe exists.

What? Barely half of Europe believes in God (mostly lead by a few countries). 40% of France is atheist (Eurobarometer 2010) with only 27% believing affirmatively in God.

[Palantir]

The West is not secular, but firmly Christian. The fact that many do not practice Christianity does not change the cultural underpinnings of the West.

[geo]

^ Completely disagree. The gay marrying, abortioning, pot smoking masses disagree. America is a Christian country. Much of the rest of the west is not.

[Matt_Likes_Analysis]

^ thanks but i’ll stick with CIA statistics over Eurobarometor any day.

France: Roman Catholic 83%-88%, Protestant 2%, Jewish 1%, Muslim 5%-10%, unaffiliated 4%

it’s how you identify. i know many muslims that drink and are merry and don’t pray 5 times a day. you don’t see extremists targeting and murdering moderate muslims in the West to prove that point. you don’t have to live the life 100% to be considered Christian or Jewish to the extent necessary that you qualify for clemency as per the Koran. to be fair, in order for these radical muslims to not go to hell, they would at least have to have a conversation with the people they kill first, to verify they are pagans. anything short of that is coming at the West with the mentality of murdering innocents, rather than fighting for Allah.

these things “The gay marrying, abortioning, pot smoking masses disagree” are evoluation and it shows how our religions change with society for the sake of tolerance and needs of the many.