sternwolf Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Well, he had a “good” (in the world of back > office) back office summer internship at another > very prestigious hedge fund. I still don’t > understand how he fudged up all his IBD interviews > though…it’s not like they are challenging stuff > at all… …have you ever had an IB interview?
krause, how long did you stay before you made your way out?
Over the span of 2 years I went from a back office to a mid office position and finally left to go back to school to make a fresh start in real estate finance.
what impediments did you face that prevented you from moving to the front office? did they not give you interviews? please depict your struggles.
krause2, How long did you spend in back office? may I now what are your position now?
Speaking from my previous life in the back office: Little to no knowledge useful to my current role. Advantages: HUGE because doing well there convinced someone with an opening to ask me for the job after a bit more than a year. Now I’m on a senior level and have been asked for a portfolio management role a few times. Haven’t done it (yet) since I love my current job in risk management but I might in the future. My two cents: No company will hire you with back office experience only. Therefore, if you DO go for the back office, pick one at a buy side firm, not too big, where they do NOT have a mid-office. That gives you daily contacts with front office on numerous topics and if you’re any good, they’ll want you to join them. If you think it’s a good idea to join a huge back office within a huge firm which has a huge mid-office; think again. Even if you stand out it’ll take much longer than you wish. krause2 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Speaking from my previous life in the back office > I can offer my take on its advantages: > > None whatsoever.
It is all about what you make of it. If you become comfortable in your role you can get stuck inteh BO forever. But I think if you keep studying and applying for new roles internally and externally every 1 or 2 years you can move up and out. I think there are too many people on this forum who look down on the BO like it is the plague. Let’s be honest… not everyone will get FO jobs out of school. They are few and far between. But if you are determined you can get there and having the BO work experience is not going to hurt… Hey it is better than being unemployed.
I would caution anyone considering a BO job to make sure they know that people at the firm in question have made the move from back to front office. There are some places where back office folks will basically NEVER make the move and other places where it is more flexible. If you go to the former place, it will be a waste of time if you have front office ambitions because you won’t make the jump there, and it is unlikely that another firm will hire you from there into the front office. Trying to figure out which type of place a potential firm is can be difficult, because, in every case, the back office manager is attempting to hire you for a BO position, and isn’t likely to be open about the potential to move out of said position. Unless they really want to hire you and are dangling the possibility in front of you to get you to accept the job (and they may or may not be 100% truthful. Knowing 1 person who made the switch 10 years ago out of thousands of BO employees doesn’t represent good odds.). You need some info from other folks in the company.
Couldn’t agree more. Maybe my earlier comment wasn’t clear on that part: You will NOT be hired at another company with BO experience. That happens once every 1,000,000,000 times. You must focus on an internal move, that happens quite regularly. It’s one of the best kept secrets, we love to scan the BO for youngsters who are ambitious, smart and hands-on. But we will only scan our own BO…someone sending a letter with BO experience on his CV only will not be invited. Focus on the company you’re joining, that’s key. Ask them if people make internal moves regularly and what their policy is. They’ll talk about people moving from administration to accounting or settlements or whatever and then kindly ask if people aren’t switching to FO.
I remember going to a JP Morgan Investment banking division recruiting event a while back and the managing director was a former undergrad chemistry major from Ivy who landed in back office. He was eventually recognized and brought into the front. He made MD in his early 30s. It was a pretty strange event. The associates present at the event looked very tired, depressed, and pissed with bags under their eyes while they tried to convince everyone that “IBD is the best job in all of finance”. The MD, however, was obviously well rested, happy, boisterous, and his personality was virtually everywhere at the event…was very charismatic.
yes, getting out of BO is a challenge. How much will passing CFA exams help?
CFA_Halifax Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > yes, getting out of BO is a challenge. How much > will passing CFA exams help? I know someone from BO (product control) from citi who jumped to JPMC ibanking after one year with level 2 done.
The more you can do to improve your credentials and show your interest in the front office, the better. Passing some CFA exams is an obvious way to do this.
Another thing to realize regarding the back office is this: Being in the back office is like being in the minor leagues, you are MUCH more attractive the younger you are. In the minors a 26 year old that hits .300 with 20 home runs is considered a journeyman while a 19 year old that hits .275 can be labeled as “great potential” My point? If you are in the BO now, get out as soon as you can. You do not want to be labeled as you get older, b/c the reality is they are much more likely to take a younger guy that someone that has sat in the BO for 3,4,5 years… Don’t think I’ll work here and study for the CFA, blah blah blah blah blah - the older you get, the more unattractive you are.
I was working in BO for 1.5 years,and middle office for 1 year at a different company,before I got to Front office at another company.CFA helped big time,I was able to move up into a new company because of it. I absolutely hated my time in BO,and was so relieved to get out. You learn so much more relevant info in FO. The key to moving up through BO to FO,is finding a company that is expanding and have a culture of promoting internally. One of my friends spent 9 years in settlements before moving to equity research,another in a different company moved from BO to MO after 6 months and MO to Fo after another 6 months cos they were growing,and roles opened up.Good luck!
drs Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Another thing to realize regarding the back office > is this: Being in the back office is like being > in the minor leagues, you are MUCH more attractive > the younger you are. > > 22
I’m loving this AA-like back office support group. It should be permanent.
“You will NOT be hired at another company with BO experience. That happens once every 1,000,000,000 times.” Of the ten or so back office people I have known that expressed interest in moving into a front office position two have been successful finding front office positions at other firms. I can’t claim that’s an industry standard, but for what its worth that’s been my experience.