Given all the talk about back office here, I was wondering if there were any advantages of starting in the Back office. please evaluate the statement: " you get to learn how things work better when you start from teh back office since you get into the details of the transactions"
A Busboy is to Jean Georges just like a Back Office worker is to Ken Moelis
u have more free time to study for the GMAT, CFA, CAIA, …etc
bmwhype Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > u have more free time to study for the GMAT, CFA, > CAIA, …etc That’s the biggest advantage. Any job is only worth what you make of it. If you think your current back office job is worthless, it will be. I used my time in the back office improving my Excel skills, networking with front office people in close proximity to me, expanding my knowledge of investments and the markets by taking on the CFA program and taking classes on my own, etc, etc.
bmwhype Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > u have more free time to study for the GMAT, CFA, > CAIA, …etc Yep- you work less hours and you can even study at work. I wish I would’ve signed up immediately after graduating in May '07- if so, I would’ve aimed for CFA level 1 in Dec. '07 and CFA level 2 in June '08. That would be an AWESOME position to be in after having spent only one year in a job. If you wanted to leave the B/O, you’d have a huge head start.
TPain88 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > bmwhype Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > u have more free time to study for the GMAT, > CFA, > > CAIA, …etc > > > Yep- you work less hours and you can even study at > work. I wish I would’ve signed up immediately > after graduating in May '07- if so, I would’ve > aimed for CFA level 1 in Dec. '07 and CFA level 2 > in June '08. > > That would be an AWESOME position to be in after > having spent only one year in a job. If you wanted > to leave the B/O, you’d have a huge head start. Given you would have passed both levels first try…
would you say that you learn more about the ivnestments due to the fact you detail more closely with the detail? i suspect a big no.
FrankArabia Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > would you say that you learn more about the > ivnestments due to the fact you detail more > closely with the detail? i suspect a big no. Doubtful. If you’re working with complicated instruments you may gain a better understanding of how they work, but a fund accountant on a mutual fund doesn’t learn much useful about the investment process. That said, I don’t agree with the multitudes here who think joining the back office is a bad idea. It’s a foot in the door, and the cream will rise to the top.
> FrankArabia Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- It’s a foot in the door, > and the cream will rise to the top. Agreed. Since I’ve been here several people have gotten analyst jobs from BO.
> FrankArabia Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- It’s a foot in the door, > and the cream will rise to the top. Agreed. Since I’ve been here several people have gotten analyst jobs from BO.
Danteshek Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > FrankArabia Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > It’s a foot in the door, > > and the cream will rise to the top. > > Agreed. Since I’ve been here several people have > gotten analyst jobs from BO. thats true, but ive had an offer from a fairly large asset management firm that basically warned me that they want you to stay a minium of 2 years in the back office and that alot of the people in the BO are fighting for the rare analyst position and that they’ve had people who work for 8 years in the back office and never got an interview for anyhting in the FO. i just thought to myself that it was a dead end and that in two years i could get more relevant skills working in accounting or consulting. The BO is a good place to be for the above stated reasons but if you dont like the job its a pretty hard place to be when you really just want to be an analyst.
I am one year out of school… *Working back office around 45-50 hours a week *Making 55k salary with great benefits *Interacting with front office regularly (about to head to the bar with some traders for a few rounds of beer and Golden Tee) *Studying for CFA in the downtime. I am happy with my back office job so far. I plan to stay with the company for years to come. I am learning this business from the ground up and really enjoying it. I have seen coworkers make the BO to FO jump regularly. However, I think the company I work for is the exception. I am fortunate to work in a fund with such internal mobility. Back office is what you make of it. Those people who start in BO and keep eyes set on FO will be fine… assuming they are competent and hard working. The problem with back office… there are many complacent people who become comfortable.
i have no idea what a real back office or what a front office is, I work at a discount brokerage but we have a back office, and we basically call them up for things. I don’t think they learn too much about anything other then cleaning up the details and processing certain things. For those of you who have worked as an IR, is it similar in a real investment job where the back office basically processes things that are really not pertinent to how you do your job, AKA accounting for IPO subscriptions, making sure the dividends are in on time, cash management.
Are tellers front office or back office?
I have a friend at a prestigious back office job (at the headquarters of one of the largest, most elite hedge funds) paying 65K 1st year with 5K sign on bonus. He graduated Magna Cum Laude from NYU stern undergrad. He failed all his IBD M&A interviews. He feels like an idiot for taking the job since it doesn’t teach you investment analytical skills…he’s thinking of leaving and going for front office jobs at MM or boutiques. What’s better, unemployed and studying investments/CFA/CPA/CAIA/FRM/CMT/CMA etc. full time for a year or taking a two-three year back office gig…?
stern, work experience is always better than no work experience.
Well, he had a “good” (in the world of back office) back office summer internship at another very prestigious hedge fund. I still don’t understand how he fudged up all his IBD interviews though…it’s not like they are challenging stuff at all…
stern, two explanations 1) he didn’t have it 2)unlucky why you would spend all that time doing those designations? you might as well get a masters and just do the CFA. you can do FRM and CAIA during work time. not sure why you want to do a CPA if you’re not interested in accounting. I want to do the CA myself just to learn more accounting, but i dont’ think its ight for me since i have no desire to work in an audit firm.
Well, I don’t know. The guy doesn’t know much about investments or investing, but I thought his stellar grades (3.8) with a perfect 4.0 major gpas would get him into the banks. IBD at the analyst level will interview candidates with shitty knowledge and past experience for “Fit” due to the transaction oriented,repetitive, slavish nature of the job. They usually chomp up the 4.0 , top business school types immediately because they need people who can handle 90+ hours a week over any other consideration. CPA knowledge is very important in investment management, IMHO. I realized this a few weeks into my Equity research internship. Knowing financial statements in/out as well as the added prospective is very important. My PM was a CPA/CFA and most associates/assistant, etc. had studied accounting, either general/CPA at some point. The Financial Reporting and disclosure elements of the CPA are absolutely essential, and are like the FSA portions of the CFA. the Audit, tax, B-law, managerial accounting elements are less important, but still extremely usefully life knowledge that provides you a special perspective in decision making. IMHO, studying for the CPA exam is not really that “Audit” extensive. Tax and B-law aren’t that time consuming either. I took a grand total of three classes for those elements…one for each. It’s the FRD element that takes the most effort, ironically the skillset needed for Investment management. That pain in the ass is composed of four-five large cpa courses…
Speaking from my previous life in the back office I can offer my take on its advantages: None whatsoever.