And I don’t recognize excuses, “oh traffic” or “I was doing something more important than you”. I guess because 1) I’m just not a being late type of person, and 2) I lived in NE Asia for years and people aren’t late there. Showing up late in some Asian cultures will end you; the other party will be enraged, any potential deal you were working on crushed, they will tell everyone around town about you, and even aggressively seek revenge. You just don’t f!@$n do it, period.
But now I’m back in the West…and have not had a single meeting where people were not late. Not one! Clock hits the hour, and I’m either sitting in the room, or dialed in. But it’s just me…where is everyone? Then we start hearing the news “oh so and so is stuck in traffic bla bla”. Meeting gets started 10min late “well, I guess we should get started”. Then around 20min the last guy storms into the room “SORRY I’M LATE, OH I’M SO IMPORTANT, YOU CAN’T BELIEVE THE THINGS I’VE BEEN WORKING ON…”. This totally disturbs the meeting, and now we have to explain everything this absent minded idiot missed. So now we’ve lost 30min, half the meeting.
And this is how Americans work, every day of every year, not getting anything done. Strangely, it’s almost like a badge of honor in 'Merika, to show how important you are by never being on time? And yet think of what this says “I have more important things than you, you should be impressed”. No, I’m not impressed, if you have more important things than me, then f@#k you too.
Being late is viewed as a power move. Sort of like the delicate dance that is required of logistics when multiple world leaders are supposed to take the stage - the last one is viewed as the most powerful.
Personally, I like to get places early, first if possible. You can select the best seat, compose yourself, apply some lipstick, organize your notes, and then relax with something to read while the other organize themselves around you (always have something to read so you aren’t required to make small talk). I don’t know why the “late, busy, and frazzled” look is so “in” these days.
Dude, calm down. Most of the meetings I go to in the US, people are generally on time (5-10min). If they’re running a bit late, most will give you the heads up anyway. And yes people DO have things going on that are more important than you. Get over yourself; you’re not special.
Other things happen too. Prior meeting goes overtime, kids cause mayhem, train breaks down, slipped and fell so now you need to go change real quick, and yes traffic. Stuff happens. Budgeting 1hr or so before each meeting is simply just not realistic; also, if you really can do this then it’s likely you have too much time on your hands. Only things such as court date or interview should you really not be late for.
Also, leave it to PA to say Americans aren’t punctual. I’ve never heard this, but have heard the opposite and that we work too much. If you think Americans are bad, come to Europe, South/Central America, etc… The only place I’ve seen the type of behavior PA is talking about is in Hong Kong or Tokyo and/or in banking. Even for the latter, it’s more specifically targeted at the junior bankers.
Lastly, who the heck wants to work in an environment where someone would be outright vengeful just because you showed up a few minutes late. That’s not good business etiquette. That’s called being a dick.
In some cultures, being on time is actually considered offensive. Your claim about Americans not getting things done means you obviously don’t know how business gatherings go down in Europe. Basically, any meeting has an initial “feel each other out” phase. In my experience with the Europeans, this phase can take up the bulk of a 2-hour meeting.
This is all just circular; “things are the way they are because Americans think the way they do”. Well of course that’s true, that is what my post was all about.
I do not understand this concept, if you are 5-10min late, you are not “on time”.
I already said I do not recognize excuses. But yes, this is the American excuse “but we could not control it”. They give this excuse abroad too, and it doesn’t work, deals fall thru, and then they complain they can’t make it in Asia because the “playing field is not level”. Epic incompetence.
Exactly, if Americans are forced to actually do their job, and use basic manners, they call that person “a vengeful dick”.
Drives me nuts as well. My boss is the worst offender. Ten people in a room waiting for her when she called the meeting. Then she’ll want to grab a tea before getting started. I’m always on time as a matter of principle. 5 minutes late is late and I find it highly disrespectful. If I’m the client, and I almost always am in my role, it will certainly cost you my business if you’re late. And the comment above about Europe: depends on thr country. In the north, people are on time and meetings are extremely concise and to the point. In the south, things can be even worse than North America.
Drives me crazy as well. I’m always on time, habit I grew into because as a kid I was always late because my mom was late for nearly everything.
At work I like being the first one at the meeting because it meant I could stop working like 15 minutes before and go to the bathroom, grab a coffee, etc. In my old job there was 1 weekly meeting that I’d purposefully show up to late and leave early and be there just long enough to find out if I needed to contribute something that week.
The degree of lateness in the US I feel is also regional. When I have meetings in NYC/Boston people are almost always on time, here in Houston people aren’t too bad about it, in New Orleans good luck. If people remember the meeting exists at all you might as well count that as a win.
That’s been my experience too. Meetings with people in Finland and Germany, everyone is on time, it is very formal and polite, structured. Southern Europe, uhh casual, who cares type of attitude…my former IBer boss is from this culture, and is a huge offender.
This could have just been a venting topic about people who do this and I would have been quick to agree. Unfortunately because America has a perpetual lease in PA’s brain this had to turn into yet another massive overgeneralizing shit fest.
I agree with OP. Some people do it as a power move, like another poster said. I never do it to anyone and if someone does it to me, I find it EXTREMELY disrespectful.
At one of my old jobs, we had a quarterly meeting. If you’re late, you’re fired, on the spot, in front of everyone. Happened to 1 girl who overslept. If someone can’t manage their time, I don’t trust them with other resources that I find much less valuable.
im always early. that was instilled in me by my parents. it def helps in life to be early unless youre in the sack lol
btw my gf is always late and it drives me nuts. i have to lie to her and tell her events start and hour early than they actually do so we are on time. drives me nuts
I don’t think it’s an American specific thing however I do get the feeling that standards are slipping on things like punctuality in general. Maybe lateness as a power play is specific to the US though as everyone always wants you to know how slammed they are and very few people want to be the 1st there. The UK is going the same way. Latin and Southern European cultures are late but mainly out of being so laid back. In Germany you’re never late. I once had a client meeting in Germany that was scheduled in the diaries for 13:35 as they calculated that it would take 35 mins to get from the airport to their office.
I find it pretty disrespectful too, everyone’s time has value. However, the ability to forgive and reconcile is probably one of the strong suites of western culture, once or twice with a valid excuse is acceptable. Habitual tardiness, is not.
PA, as a guy with such strong opinions, surely you confronted the offenders. Tell us, how did that go for you? Do you find it difficult in everyday life to disguise your disdain for Western society?