BitCoin - Wave of the Future or Scam?

^It’s very difficult to identify the person behind the transaction. There is actually one way to do so but it’s just a best guess scenario. If someone buys bitcoins and turns around and uses them immediately, there’s a chance an astute “hacker” could trace the transaction back to the person that made the initial btc buy.

If you want to be truly anonymous, there are btc tumblers out there where you throw your btc in and receive a different one (for a small fee, of course). After this is done, you’re essentially impossible to track.

So its money laundering? It sounds like you are basically helping prop up a currency widely used for illegal activities if you are buying into bitcoin then.

Ive heard this about tumblers and i know it makes it incredibly hard to trace to tbh it still wouldnt shock me if some big data govt data mining insane tech we cant even fathom exists that could connect that dots. Not saying it does, but it could or at least its possible in the future and its a pretty big risk to take. If you made say 40k a year as a IT guy in utah, and you started depositing 5k a week in your accounts you might get flagged. Im also not sure how reporting of sales works to the govt from exchanges, if its US based i would imagine some sale reporting would get sent to the IRS. Just looked it up and Coinbase does produce a 1099-K

You could easily say the same about USD or EUR cash

@GoaB - Not necessarily. It’s really just like me handing you cash and you give me fresh new bills. The purpose isn’t to avoid taxation. It’s to remain anonymous. People that use btc take that stuff very seriously.

@Yayy - Obviously I have no idea what the NSA or whatever can do, but as far as I know (and I try to stay up on these things) no one as ever been caught doing something illegal because they got traced through the blockchain. Perhaps government agencies can trace them to some degree and use the info to track suspected bad guys, but I don’t think it’s ever been used in court to prosecute someone.

Can somebody give some lights about these questions? They are important to assess the economic fundamentals behind bitcoin:

What is the quantity of bitcoin in the market right now? Is today total quantity the same since the first issuance? Who can issue new bitcoins? When and under what assumptions a new bitcoin would be created / issued? Can bitcoins create short-term inflation in Siberia?

Google. These are common knowledge topics of bitcoin.

What I don’t understand how Bitcoin hasn’t been displaced by a form of electronic gold depository receipts. You can trade claims to physical gold electronically and you have all of the draws of BC, fixed supply, international sovereignty, etc. You also avoid the risk of regulatory obsolescence and the relative youth of BC. An additional plus of gold is that if you accept delivery and trade in the physical, you have true anonymity which BC now lacks while still retaining the ability to verify the value of the underlying asset.

There are some new electronically traded gold products launching later this year (including Royal Mint Gold, where physical gold can be traded in increments of as little as 1 gram, worth around $41 at current prices). These may provide some competition for Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is up 8% so far today,to $2,920. Could be over $3,000 very soon and was around $900 in March. Hugely volatile.

^^People that own gold as a currency (like me) want the physical metal in our hands. Electronic receipts (pretty much GLD) aren’t going to help you if the sh i t hits the fan. And, even physical gold isn’t anywhere near as anonymous as btc. It’s not like you can conduct an online transaction in gold.

Edit: Also, for most people it’s not gold vs btc. They’re more complements to each other than competitors.

Yeah, but you’re missing the point. I’m not saying why electronic receipts don’t replace gold. I’m saying why they don’t compliment physical gold (assuming they can be converted) and displace bitcoin. BC has become very trackable. Physical gold still is not. An ADR doesn’t accomplish what I’m looking for because I’m suggesting an actual receipt that can be converted. The gold sits at a central facility and the receipt trades or is exchanged. Therefore you COULD conduct an online transaction with a gold receipt if something like this was setup. So you COULD displace bit coin’s functionality, while retaining the true anonymity of gold. The counter argument about electronic receipts also holds up for BC if it hits the fan. I’m just saying a tradable electronic receipt for gold could be developed that could offer all the benefits of BC, but with fewer of the cons.

I’m not sure what you mean by btc has become very trackable. It’s has it always has been. Buyers and sellers are still anonymous. You can’t do that with gold. Plus, your talk of a central facility would never go over with the btc crowd. And, I’m still unsure how gold transactions are anonymous.

I’m just saying a tradable electronic receipt for gold could be developed that could offer all the benefits of BC, but with fewer of the cons.

[/quote]

A company in Dubai is doing something like this already with "OneGramCoin:, described as “the world’s first completely gold-backed digital currency”.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-firm-launches-world-s-first-gold-backed-digital-currency-672673.html

“A maximum total of 12,400,786 OneGramCoin tokens (OGC) will be sold, making it the largest cryptocurrency crowdsale goal in history”.

Unlike Bitcoin, these tokens will actually have something tangible behind them. It will be

It will be interesting to see what happens with this

^I’ll have to check into that, but how is it anonymous if you can exchange the digital gold for physical? At some point you’re going to have to give out an address to have the gold shipped to or pick it up from some sort of exchange. At that point you’re outed. This is the first I’m hearing of it though so I’ll have to do some research. Could be interesting.

Not really, anybody with the certificate could pick it up. So you could send anyone on your behalf. Also, you could simply choose not to exchange it or sell it for cash (or bitcoin) or gold to anyone else. The redemption is purely optional. Would be pretty easy to maintain annoymity.

You can pay for goods and services with bitcoins… can you do the same with “gold depository receipts”?

As I was about to say in my previous post (but didn’t), people look bitcoin as a stock expecting capital gains. How is that bitcoin traded at 967 dollar at 31/12/2016 and now is around 2900 dollar. Momentum effect? Demand is just excessively out-weighting supply quantity. That’s why I asked how the supply of bitcoins is controlled.

  1. Yes, that’s the point, try to keep up. They’re building the concept out now. People said the same thing about BC before it was accepted really anywhere.

  2. Again, google.

@Harrogath - look up the thread on this in the Investments forum. I think I did a pretty good job of outlining how it all works. But, certainly, Google will help you more than I could.

@BS - I think the trick with coming up with a new crypto-currency is you have to find the flaw in the established one first. So far, aside from the things like Mt. Gox getting hacked, btc itself has been pretty rock solid. The only legit threat to btc I’ve heard about is the 51% problem (and China is trying to do just that).

I’m all for gold having a bigger role in the global currency market. I just don’t see how you get the same level of anonymity as btc.

Pretty interesting article

http://m.nasdaq.com/article/what-is-bitcoin-mining-cm736542

What Is Bitcoin Mining?

BitcoinMagazineJanuary 23, 2017, 09:25:57 AM EDT

By Alexander Lawn

Bitcoin mining is the process by which the transaction information distributed within the Bitcoin network is validated and stored on the blockchain. It is a term used to describe the processing and confirmation of payments on the Bitcoin network.

What makes the validation process for Bitcoin different from traditional electronic payment networks is that there is no need for an issuing bank, an acquiring bank, merchant accounts or mandatory centralized clearing houses, such as Visa and MasterCard, holding onto funds until they process transactions at the end of each day.

Bitcoin mining is a process that anyone can participate in by running a computer program. In addition to running on traditional computers, some companies have designed specialized Bitcoin mining hardware that can process transactions and build blocks much more quickly and efficiently than regular computers. The process of validating transactions and committing them to the blockchain involves solving a series of specialized math problems.

Each Bitcoin miner is competing with all the other miners on the network to be the first one to correctly assemble the outstanding transactions into a block by solving those specialized math problems. In exchange for validating the transactions and solving these problems, Bitcoin miners are rewarded for all of the transactions they process. They receive fees attached to all of the transactions that they successfully validate and include in a block. In addition to transaction fees, miners also receive an additional award for each block they mine.

This block reward is also the process by which new bitcoins are created, as specified by the Bitcoin protocol. Currently, that reward is 12.5 new bitcoins (worth over $7,000 at time of publication) for each block mined. That reward decreased from 25 bitcoins on June 9, 2016.

Because the reward for mining blocks is so high, the competition to win that reward is also high. At any moment, hundreds of thousands of supercomputers all around the world are competing to mine the next block and win that reward. In fact, the total power of all the computers mining Bitcoin is over 1000 times more powerful than the world’s top 500 supercomputers combined. And the competition doesn’t stop—the Bitcoin network has gotten stronger and stronger over the past several years, growing by as much as 10 percent per month. The strength of the Bitcoin network is very important for security because in order to attack the network, an attacker would need to have over half of the total computational power of the network. The more miners that are mining Bitcoin, the more difficult and expensive it becomes to perform this attack.

In order to have an edge in this global competition, the hardware used for Bitcoin mining has undergone various iterations, starting with using the humble brain of your computer, the CPU. The CPU can perform many different types of calculations including Bitcoin mining, but is designed to be general purpose. Early miners soon discovered that the calculations could be run faster and more efficiently using a graphics card (GPU), which is the computer chip that handles complex 3D imaging algorithms. Aside from being able to process Bitcoin’s transactions faster and more efficiently, the graphics card setup in many desktop PCs meant more than one graphics card could be used per computer. This was already a feature of high-end gaming and 3D design computers. As such, Bitcoin’s popularity grew among those associated within such fraternities, as they could dedicate their machines to mine bitcoins, and thus cover the cost of their hardware.

But this still wasn’t the most power-efficient option, as both CPUs and GPUs were very efficient at completing many tasks simultaneously, and consumed significant power to do so, whereas Bitcoin in essence just needed a processor that performed its cryptographic hash function ultra-efficiently.

Enter the Field Programmable Gate Array (FPGA), which was capable of doing just that with vastly less demand for power. There was one issue: due to the reprogrammable nature of the chip, it had a significantly high cost for a chip that solved blocks at the same rate as a GPU. Its real virtue was the fact that the reduced power consumption meant many more of the chips, once turned into mining devices, could be used alongside each other on a standard household power circuit.

As Bitcoin’s adoption and value grew, the justification to produce more powerful, power-efficient and economical per-chip devices warranted the significant engineering investments in order to develop the final and current iteration of Bitcoin mining semiconductors: the Application Specific Integrated Circuit, or ASIC. ASICs are super-efficient chips whose hashing power is multiple orders of magnitude greater than the GPUs and FPGAs that came before them. Succinctly, it’s a custom Bitcoin engine capable of securing the network far more effectively than before.

The year 2013 was very much a land grab for Bitcoin ASIC technology as the first ASICs became available and many different companies raced to create the most power chips using cutting edge semiconductor manufacturing processes. In the years since, several Bitcoin mining chip manufacturers have focused on optimizing for efficiency, rather than total power, since mining is a very energy-intensive process.

Because of the high energy costs for running a powerful Bitcoin miner, many operators have elected to build data centers known as mining farms in locations with cheap electricity, such as near a hydroelectric dam in Washington State or even in foreign countries like Iceland and Venezuela.

Another advancement in mining technology was the creation of the mining pool, which is a way for individual miners to work together to solve blocks even faster. As a result of mining in a pool with others, the group solves many more blocks than each miner would on his own. However, the miners must split the rewards with the entire group. Today, the majority of mining on the Bitcoin network is done by large pools, several of which are based in China.

So far, Bitcoin mining has continued to grow stronger and more secure, even as the mining reward decreased at the 2016 halving.

Hailing from London, Alex Lawn is a well-known character on the cryptocurrency scene. He is responsible for not only the fundraising and building of some of the most successful branding in Bitcoin, specifically in hardware, but for bringing journalists working in the world’s financial and tech press up to speed on the subject of cryptocurrencies. Lawn works within disruptive finance alongside the principals of Bourne Capital.