http://www.glamour.com/story/woman-dies-after-hospital-refuses-to-treat-her-for-a-miscarriage
How could this happen? Europeans are the most enlightened people on the planet and do everything perfectly and
Italy has a national health plan, Servizio Sanitario Nazionale, and national health plans are perfect.
^Please stay on message, that is for the Obamacare thread. This one trolls pro-lifers.
^ HA!! 
Are there Italian pro-lifers here?
Italians shouldn’t be allowed to abort -given they are the purest of human creation - but abortion should be allowed for all other cases.
That’s obviously a joke. This is a sad event that could have been averted.
nah, this isn’t representative of pro-life or any religion. its just wrong.
this is just medical malpractice. why must we throw around labels that don’t apply to the actual position - to push the opposite of the side we are banging on? I guess that seems to be the case.
^ divide & conquer. Us vs them mentality makes sure you can rile up each side easily and make it a wedge issue.
70% of Italian OB/GYNs are guilty of malpractice then, because that’s how many have declared themselves conscientious objectors under Italian law. As one of the fiscal conservative, social moderates that Palantir claims don’t exist, I believe women should have the right to choose, but apparently the people of Italy feel differently, at least after 12 weeks.
Me personally, I’d like to see a system that answers the question “When is it a viable life with rights?” on a progressive scale rather than discrete point the same way a fetus develops progressively. Something like pure right to choose first trimester, with a few light hurdles (such as a mandated counciling session) in the second trimester that begin to step up midway through the second term. Documented rape victims get to choose freely through the second trimester without consequence given the additional time required to process the trauma and immediately life threatening medical emergencies are handled at the doctor’s discretion at all stages. In the third trimester the hurdles progressively increase, requiring same day medical board approval justified by significant risk to the mother in the last 8 weeks.
This addresses concerns of both parties even handedly. The woman is given a right to choose through the second trimester, however she is also given a responsibility to choose by the third (barring medical emergencies or risk to the mother).
It’s this constant obsession with determining a single discrete point at which the fetus magically becomes a stakeholder that people seem to get caught up on.
Not a bad way to deal with it BS, but administratively it seems difficult which is why people like the all or nothing type of approach. Not everyone is mature enough to drive at 16, vote or join the military at 18 or drink at 21, but we set these somewhat arbitrary dates in most aspects of our culture anyway.
It really doesn’t require that much administration to be honest. It’s well within a clinic’s ability to offer a counseling session or setup a centralized board.
I didnt mean to offer those services, I just meant making a regulatory framework for it that would satisfy peoples wants/needs. People like to check a box and put things out of their mind. Fighting over abortion is a wedge issue and a distraction. Look at Mississippi, the state is poor as hell really has no place in being so stubborn. They are fighting against planned parenthood funding (even though PP doesnt provide abortions in Mississippi) although PP received less than $1000. How much do you think this extremely poor state spent in legal battles over less than $1000? How is this fiscally responsible?
source for PP funding:
Time to abort Catholicism. If your religion cannot protect women (like this case) and children (need I mention priests) then it is worse than useless - it is actively evil.
And don’t point out how other religions suck - they do, that’s no excuse to tolerate this peasant anti-enlightenment cult.