Also, in terms of 5 minutes turning into 30min, I know what you mean. Happens to me all the time. The gels do taste like crap, but I need 100mg of Clif gel Espresso to get from the bathtub to the kitchen sometimes. I keep Clif gels everywhere. It helps to drink water first then Clif gel, then water, as the taste does get disgusting. I planned to go to 8pm sparring, but here I am eating. I’ll probably be eating for a while, but boxing/bag work is definitely next. Time is an interesting concept in Ultra. Its like it does not exist.
FWIW, I use Darn Tough socks for trail racing and they’ve served well through snow, rain and sleet ( no hail yet). You need trail shoes. Not optional. I like Peregrines, but go try some shoes on.
To be honest I can’t remember my pace and that mostly goes back to my earlier point about trail racing culture and no stop watches, running it as you see it. If you look at that elevation chart of Vermont 100 vs Boston Marathon you get the point. Pacing is sort of irrelevant because it doesn’t work the way it does in road races. Elevations and terrain can vary wildly both between and within a course. I’ve seen people run in thin shoes but like Brain Wash, I’d look at the trail shoes I recommended. I don’t know anything about the course you’re going on, but in tough trail races the uphill can literally be climbing on all fours up shale and mud pulling yourself up by trees and the downhill can be a butt sliding descent down a rough slope. I’ve literally had to cross creeks waist deep in mid course and run in more than ankle deep snow on the way out once on a 50 miler just to have ankle deep mud on the way back as it warmed up. Point is, given the variability tread is your friend and most trail shoes have drainage installed. All this feeds into my point about running very slow on the first third and walking uphills. When I ran my first trail marathon it was an accident and I’d only run road before so I thought I could just figure and extra x time for rolling park trails and set my watch. Turns out had I run that time I would have won the race by like an hour. The guys that won usually run sub 3 hour road marathons and finished in like 4:30. So you have to calibrate and be flexible. Because the field for your race at 50M was only like 4-6 people you’re either getting 4-6 really experienced older guys that are still great runners or 4-6 bros with no clue or some mix, could be a real crapshoot. But typically since the ultra running phase has passed whats left these days are generally pretty decent runners.
BS - werent you facing some of the same obstacles I am? High calorie/water needs due to upper body? You’re pretty stocky dude, how can you run like that?
Like I know you have high ability - I’m not poking fun - how do you do it? Going from 1mi aid stations on the run to 6mi is a big jump for me in terms of race help. I’m struggling with my caloric needs versus their weight to carry.
I’m thinking of switching to intermittent fasting and building up a little fat.
Ive been thinking more and more of that guy’s body type. He’s basically a type of human camel. That is what the race seems to demand, but my plan as you can kind of tell must be different.
Also, my friend has a wife and a child. He is divorced and they are partners in a business. Its f’ed up and this is his only break. I’m thinking of bringing music the whole time (which means I carry a speaker). Might look for some solar powered stuff if you have any recos.
I’ve been walking around in some trail shoes today - my old Adidas Supernova Trail shoes. They feel good, but still leaning towards a Flyknit to avoid weight. I train barefoot so for my muscles the Flyknits are close to that.
The Mariah’s aren’t good for the race as pebbles get stuck in the heel, but Flyknit racers have a flat sole, which is optimal.
Well, I recommend the Brooks Cascadia, your best bet is to check the weather if it’s dry the few days before and no rain in forecast your flyknits should be fine. Maybe email the race director to ask about the course terrain and if there’s much in the way of creeks or water you’ll be encountering. I always ran with a camelback like 1 liter I think but you’ll need a lot of water. Again the potassium supplements help with cramping. I always found music to be mentally draining, but I ran with ear plugs in and would listen to some soothing stuff during the first 10 miles or so while I zoned out in the morning. I always figured the first 10M were autopilot then you’d start running diagnostics on yourself around mile 12-15 and then the race would begin. I’d keep the ear plugs in without music on so if I got stuck next to someone I didn’t feel like talking to I could pretend I had music on and pull out the earplugs each time to ask what when they talked, after awhile they’d move on. Sometimes the right company is good. It’s going to be a much longer race than what you’re used to. Instead of 5 hours broken up between modes of exercise you’re likely going to be going around 10 or more on one muscle set but it won’t be boring. Psychologically the key is to not let the euphoric highs carry you with them, you need to stay grounded and then have the same grounded mentality when the lows hit. As the race progresses, the highs and lows will alternate more frequently and more severely. One thing that helps is to always look at the gradient, I’ve found myself in really negative deep lows just to examine the gradient and realize it was an almost imperceptible steady uphill that was taxing me. Knowing the cause helps you know it will pass with the gradient change.
Yeah, I’m definitely super stocky for an ultra runner, it will likely put a ceiling on your times as it did mine. You’re basically hauling around like 40 lbs of weight the leaders don’t have to deal with. The bigger issue, more than the weight is the heat radiation. It’s like running with steaks strapped to you. The thin guys run much cooler, you see them on the way back from dog legs looking like they’ve got the AC on. Anyhow there’s really no fix for it, it is what it is, I’m just a naturally bulky guy upper body. It’s the main reason I never moved on to 100M, These races are hard, there’s a reason the fields are thin, but they’re also really interesting and you learn a lot about running, logistics and your own psyche.
Cool. Thanks for the feedback. I did a 1.5mi trail run today in the Adidas Supernovas. I might train in those for starters. I hadn’t run over a mile on the trails in a while. Maybe since XC in HS in 2000. It was a lot of fun though. I was at a 10min mile pace and definitely felt a lot of momentum loss in the spongy-ness of the earth. Its kind of like jump roping on plushy mats to me versus a harder mat. I can speed rope real well on hard mats, but not so much on the soft ones. There is a lot of energy loss on soft earth, like running on soft sand. I’m very intrigued by the sport though. I think I’m going to tell my friend that I might leave him, but will pass out at the finish line at this point. I noticed that a slow jog on the trail/grass and my energy expenditure versus a quick pace/stride is not too different, but the latter uses my quads greatly in a way that my friend may not be able to keep up, but it might be the most efficient way of running for me. I have to focus on the most efficient way of running for me above all for a good race I think. I’ll keep you updated. I kind of fell into this sport and the 70.3 this year, and its nice to have you and KMD around for some feedback as these races are not for the light hearted it seems.
I think there is a fix - I still plan on running with my light bamboo Bo; I plan to do some training with it with one pack on each side to get some cool air flowing to my back. Probably with both arms up holding the Bo, with it resting on my upper spine/neck like a squat bar.
Also, thinking about going the whole race shirtless. I have some cool packs that I might bring for my neck and back during the breaks. I understand you didn’t take that long of a break, but I’m looking at possibly longer breaks and faster running speed with kind of a buildup after each break to a peak speed and then a sort of a cooldown back into the next break.
That’s the plan currently, who knows what will happen. Also, I’m on the fence if I want to take my phone. I don’t want to be stranded in the forest alone with a f’ing broken something, so might bring it without my heavy battery case for SOS if needed. My Fenix 5x Plus Sapphire has music, but looking to depend on my Fitbit versa for music after I take it back to get it fixed/replaced at Wal Mart. I have two light bluetooth headsets I might bring with me. I want the Garmin Fenix to track the race on the GPS and think it could last the whole time, but probably will throw in some chargers for diff devices at aid station 3 and 4. Probably charge the music on station 3 and then Garmin on station 4. I want ice at each station so I can fill up my Camelback with ice to hydrate and cool me at the same time.
(im really effing high maintenance)
Also,
my knee feels fine on soft terrain and trail runs. The uneven terrain doesn’t bother it at all. It’s the excessive pounding on pavement, so I’m not really looking to train on pavement much at all, even for the upcoming 70.3.
The challenge of a 50mi knowing my knee will hold up is very exciting to me.
Thinking of leaving each aid station with the addition of water/food/gels needed + maybe a sandwich bag full of frozen strawberries and peanut butter and maple syrup or orange juice.
I’m going to have to do some calculations, but will probably need a massive, massive amount of calories.
The store near me makes squeezable apple sauce packets (Harris Teeter organics)
soooo convenient
a lot of the squeezables would be great for this race, but I am going to get some pita bread hummus /starches / toastchee / mres etc
I just take a long ass time to eat. I’m going to have to figure out a way to eat faster or something
prob going to have jars of peanut butter and honey at the stations. I could eat a jar of PB and honey in a few minutes. Thats 3000-4000 cal right there.
So, I’m not 100% sure what you were saying about the aid stations. I would wear a shirt at least as a sweater I went with underarmor. Nipple chaffe can be real and since you haven’t run that length of distance before at least take some bandaids but consider underarmor to be safe. If you don’t wear a shirt, your pack will murder your back bouncing around. I tried it once on a short race and looked like I fell off a motorcycle. I would personally cut back on the gadgetry, it’s all extra weight, minimalism outdoor gear was really an offshoot of the whole ultra running craze. Also, I would reconsider the fast running with pauses. There’s been a lot of research out there and a lot of phenomenal runners and they’ve all settled on constant motion at a slow, steady pace, short strides around 90 strides per minute for optimal efficiency. Stop and go is going to result in major efficiency losses over the course of the day, it’s hard for me to imagine you completing the race if you go that route. That said, if you feel convicted about it, then do what makes sense for you.
Just go ketogenic bro!