Okay guys, after taking both Level III CFA and Level II CAIA, I have to say that the Level II CAIA made the Level III CFA look like a hot chocolate flourless molten lava cake!!! 
As a comparison, I knew every single question on the Level III, but I have to say that at least 15% of the Level II CAIA questions threw my invisible curve balls, wow. I would need some sort of miracle to pass this baby! In conclusion, Level II CAIA was a beast, and I think CAIA designation should start getting some serious attention by the investment community.
I definitely knew more of the answers for CFA level 3 than CAIA level 2 but I donât think that is any indication of how the exams compare. I probably studied 800 hours for CFA3 and 200 for CAIA so I pretty much expected to not be sure of 20%. I agree it is a tough exam and wouldnât be surprised if I failed because everything is so much more in depth in CAIA so you really need to know minutiae (like the spotted owl becoming a protected species!) Where as CFA is a much more logical exam than fact remembering so for me was easier for me to revise and pass.
Agreed. CAIA level II is tough. I knew most of the questions or had seen in the text books for CFA. For CAIA, there were few questions for which I had no clue.
I think the opposite. I find for CFA there are tons more ambiguous type questions as opposed to the CAIA where there are plenty more gimmeâs.
Yeah I have to agree with holiday on the timing factor. I did not spend as much time studying for CAIA Level II as I did for Level III. Moreover, the excitement factor was not there for me, as to this day, I have yet to run into anyone who knew what CAIA was or what the letters stood for; which is funny and sad at the same time since I am so deep into pursuing this designation. Also, now that I am done going over the CAIA course, I think the whole curriculum was primarily designed for performing due diligence on Alt Investment, I donât see how this body of knowledge coule be any more useful in the investment industry from a purely technical perspective.
^Due diligence pros or operations guys in Alternative Investment. You canât trade or manage portfolios on the basis of knowledge gather pursuing these exams.
Iâm not sure I agree with anything posted in this thread thus far to be honest (no disrespect intended by that). Iâm a retaker for level 2 CAIA this time around, I did the exam in Paris last Tuesday. As a retaker I found it difficult to motivate myself to study much as I was essentially not learning anything new at this stage, and using it as a tool to get the designation on my CV. Having said that, my experience of the program has been a positive one, it enabled me to learn some pretty interesting trading techniques (something not covered much on the CFA program), as well as finding the study material to be quite interesting and thought provoking. In terms of the exam itself I found it very very difficult the first time around, but routine (best description I could think of) for the repeat. I donât feel it was easier because I was much more familiar with the material as I was probably no better prepared than my initial effort. Having attempted CFA2 twice myself I consider that program to be one that is quite unfair to be honest, it asks questions much different to how itâs presented in the reading material. At least the CAIA program keeps âwithin the margins of the pageâ and asks questions within the remit of the LOS, if youâve reviewed the material well you should know the answer, if you havenât then you wonât know the answer, that seems fair to me. So with that I mind I would consider CAIA2 to be easier and quite a good deal fairer to candidates than CFA2 (and by the logic that CFA3 is most likely more difficult than CFA2, probably easier than CFA3 also). My main criticism of the CAIA is that different papers for every candidate can make it seem quite variable in difficulty. I understand the numbers taking the exam are low, and thus the use of a 2-week window with multiple testing centres across the world make standardising the exam too much of a risk in terms of candidates finding out the exam questions in advance. Itâs a weakness of the program none-the-less. In addition, the lack of genuine sample questions within the core cirriculum is a serious black mark of the program. In terms of the program being focused towards due diligence of Alts, I consider that argument to be weak. For one reason, DD is an important concept of making investment decisions in the AI industry, so obviously it will be of significant importance to portfolio managers/traders who are actively involved in the industry. I think the concepts considered over the course of the 2 levels can be quite important tools for industry participants across all functions, not just a back-office role, in fact I consider it more relevant to a front-office environment.
I found the CFA harder and less relevant to actual work than the CAIA. Although the CAIA program is full of academic research, which generally has little to do with real life, the questions were asked from the perspective of a practitioner (for the most part). Just my take. Then again, maybe I just hate the CFA right now⌠I do find it annoying that basically nobody knows the CAIA, but the reason I am in it is that I hope this changes. I think the fact that they have teamed up with the CFA in Boston and NYC is a positive sign. I am also hoping that we got in before it gets ridiculously hard at both levels. Only time will tell.
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big ML, what do you by " they have teamed up with CFA in boston and NYC"? can you elaborate please? thanks.
Azzii Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > big ML, what do you by " they have teamed up with > CFA in boston and NYC"? can you elaborate please? > thanks. They have been having joint luncheons and conferences. Itâs pretty cool because it makes the CFA Charterholders more aware of the designation. The joke is that the CAIA is now CFA âLevel 4â.
lol! most people who are either candidates in the CAIA program or are charter holders are already in the industry and in high up positions . this is the case in toronto from what I have seen. everyone at my testing center on that day were appearing for CAIA level 1 apart from myself and one other lady. all of those people were olderâŚand it looked as though they had a job. so HR people might not recognize CAIA at once but when they forward a resume with CAIA to the manager, chances are the manager will have atleast heard about the designation (due to his colleagues having 1, if not himself). I hope this designation picks up as soon as I pass level 2( whether this year or the next) hahaa.
Azzii Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > lol! most people who are either candidates in the > CAIA program or are charter holders are already in > the industry and in high up positions . this is > the case in toronto from what I have seen. > everyone at my testing center on that day were > appearing for CAIA level 1 apart from myself and > one other lady. all of those people were > olderâŚand it looked as though they had a job. > so HR people might not recognize CAIA at once but > when they forward a resume with CAIA to the > manager, chances are the manager will have atleast > heard about the designation (due to his colleagues > having 1, if not himself). > > I hope this designation picks up as soon as I pass > level 2( whether this year or the next) hahaa. Well I am in Boston and it seems that there is definitley not a huge number of people that are knowledgeable about the designation.
Yeah I wonât get my hope to up, CAIA is still in its infancy and most HRs wonât give too much weight to the designation when going through the resumes. Having said that, CAIA is a great compliment to the CFA designation, along with the right experience. However, people who have already made it into the investment management buy side industry have absolutely no incentive to pursue either of the two designation, and hence will continue to favor top 5 MBA. The fact remains that people who take the CFA and/or CAIA either: work in back/middle office, new grads who still donât have a job, people who went to a sub par MBA or undergraduate and are trying to prove themselves or people who work in investment management but majority are doing wealth management or research at a boutique sell or buy side. And they are all hoping (including me) that somehow the designation will trump an MBA from wharton, unfortunately that will not happen in most head to head competition during resume selection. Letâs keep our heads up and hope for the best, and also be cognizant of reality.
IOwnFinance Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Yeah I wonât get my hope to up, CAIA is still in > its infancy and most HRs wonât give too much > weight to the designation when going through the > resumes. Having said that, CAIA is a great > compliment to the CFA designation, along with the > right experience. > > However, people who have already made it into the > investment management buy side industry have > absolutely no incentive to pursue either of the > two designation, and hence will continue to favor > top 5 MBA. The fact remains that people who take > the CFA and/or CAIA either: work in back/middle > office, new grads who still donât have a job, > people who went to a sub par MBA or undergraduate > and are trying to prove themselves or people who > work in investment management but majority are > doing wealth management or research at a boutique > sell or buy side. And they are all hoping > (including me) that somehow the designation will > trump an MBA from wharton, unfortunately that will > not happen in most head to head competition during > resume selection. > > Letâs keep our heads up and hope for the best, and > also be cognizant of reality. These days you canât have enough ammunition. With no letters after your name you probably donât have a shot of getting through HR at all. I donât really âneedâ the CAIA, but I definitely think it rounds out my resume and shows more dedication to the industry than most other candidates. However, I am a bit older, at 38, so these things matter less and less.
well said Iownfinance and Big ML. CAIA and CFA will not make you VP or MD but it will increase your knowledge and may open the door to be an analyst or associate somewhere. No guarantee though
pupdawg82 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > well said Iownfinance and Big ML. CAIA and CFA > will not make you VP or MD but it will increase > your knowledge and may open the door to be an > analyst or associate somewhere. No guarantee > though Sorry, but for me it would certainly help become an MD (was already a VP). I feel that over the last 3 years letters have gained an advantage over functional knowledge.
Imho I dont think even a top 5/top 10 MBA will guarantee a position as a VP or MD or anything. Once you break into the Analyst or Associate role, then it all depends on how you perform, network within and outside the firm, and to what extent youâre willing to take on your immediate bossâs responsibility. oh and not to forget to count the luck factor as well!
Azzii Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Imho I dont think even a top 5/top 10 MBA will > guarantee a position as a VP or MD or anything. > Once you break into the Analyst or Associate role, > then it all depends on how you perform, network > within and outside the firm, and to what extent > youâre willing to take on your immediate bossâs > responsibility. oh and not to forget to count the > luck factor as well! Oh there are certainly no guarantees in life aside from death and taxes. My only point is that these designations are tilting the scales moreso than they have in the past. Iâve seen more and more jobs advertisements where they specifically state that they will not even bother with you unless you have the CFA. In the past this was more of an unspoken rule or they would at least put âCFA preferredâ. I feel that with the proliferation of online job sites the people in HR are looking for faster and faster ways to weed people out and this has become the low hagning fruit. If youâve got 1,000 applicatants for a job you have to start somewhere and that is one of the quickest wasy to get that number down to a manageable size. Again, it seems I may have a slightly different perspective as I have been in the business for a long while and I am focused on moving up as opposed to others who are trying to break in.
âmoving up as opposed to others who are trying to break inâ +1
I agree with big ML on the filtering out job applicants by having these designations as pre-reqs and yes, i dont have much experience so my take would surely be different on the issue.