I am a few months out of undergrad and currently working in a back office (operations) function at a F500 AM/insurance firm in the NY/NJ area. I mostly just rec bank accounts, move cash (they call it “forecasting”) to cover client trades, and do some “bookings” of client transactions which are nothing more than record keeping entries. All of these clients are invested in our mutual or stable value funds as a part of their retirement plans. It’s not exactly a hub of financial activity. Will passing the Level 1 exam impress people enough to allow me to move into the client-facing/revenue arm of the firm, or even just the treasury division? Does anyone have such experience? I should also mention that I was the top economics graduate from a well-regarded regional school and that I have received nothing but praise thus far from my managers and co-workers. Obviously I’m not talking about becoming a fund manager overnight, but at least an entry-level analyst. Thanks.
^ Nothing is wrong with you, the time isn’t right, there’s no solution except… keep on trying, things are pretty much random these days IMO.
^ And yes, right time to do CFA, will engage you for some time until things go back on track again, and CFA is only going to help you in your search although impact of L1 pass will vary from person to person, firm to firm… so just do it!
Bernanke Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ^ Nothing is wrong with you, the time isn’t right, > there’s no solution except… keep on trying, > things are pretty much random these days IMO. This is good advice. Congratulations on graduating during the worst market for finance jobs in the last 80 years. At any rate, all you can do is your best – CFA is as good a starting place as anything else.
Ok, I’m going to be really honest with my answers. marsilni Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I am a few months out of undergrad and currently > working in a back office (operations) function at > a F500 AM/insurance firm in the NY/NJ area. I > mostly just rec bank accounts, move cash (they > call it “forecasting”) to cover client trades, and > do some “bookings” of client transactions which > are nothing more than record keeping entries. This is all operations. Back office of the back office. Work experience is not relevant to revenue generating divisions. > > Will passing the Level 1 exam impress people > enough to allow me to move into the > client-facing/revenue arm of the firm, or even > just the treasury division? No. Especially in today’s job market, I’m sure your revenue arm is being constantly flooded with people with top degrees and excellent work experience. And I would bet a boatload of them have passed 1 or 2 CFA exams already. Your resume would easily be buried. > Does anyone have such > experience? I should also mention that I was the > top economics graduate from a well-regarded > regional school and that I have received nothing > but praise thus far from my managers and > co-workers. > There are a few better routes to break into top jobs at the entry level: stellar work experience, stellar degree for a top school, relative of top executive. The one other way is to be stellar at your back office job, but your chances of successfully moving is maybe 1%.
CFA itself is going to help very little. It’s only a small piece of the picture. Anyway, wrt moving to the FO… I do know people who have moved from BO/docs to the Middle Office, and I know some people who have moved from MO to FO (mostly sales). So theoretically, it is possible. This is more of the exception than the norm though. Given your current situation, just do your best at your current job and keep an eye out for new opportunities. Whatever happens, just make the choices such that you have no regrets at the end. Good luck.
Assuming you graduated from a top public university in may 2010, pass CFA level 1 (Dec 2010) and level 2 (Jun 2011) and apply a job through your school’s career website next year. At very least, you will have an advantage over students for an analyst position because 1) you’re a level 3 candidate (they can tell you’re not a stupid), 2) you can explain why you want to transition from your BO job (show them you want to hustle), 3) you can better prepare for an interview. Yes, you might waste an year, but who cares, you will be still young. If you went to a top school, you shouldn’t have a problem getting an interview with many firms, unless you have below 3.2 gpa. Also, if I were you, I start sending emails to your alumni through linkedin and the school career website. Good Luck!
I probably should have made my plan a little clearer: I do not want to leave my current firm, I just want to transfer to a different division, which I figure might be easier, especially since the firm places much emphasis on mobility and essentially encourages people in the BO to move on as quickly as possible. Several people in my division have been able to get better jobs just by working hard and possibly by earning a designation or MBA…you’d be disgusted to know just how LOW the bar is set in the back office. You basically get credit for not making mistakes! AHAHA. I’m not miserable though, just a little disappointed with my first full-time gig. I am thrilled to have a job in this economy. Also, it is not as impossible to move from BO to FO as you might think. I interned at GS last summer with this guy who had been an accountant for two years and then worked at GS as an internal auditor for two; now he’s an investment banking associate for GS.
So a few months out of undergrad, and you think the rest of us with years of experience in the industry are all wrong about moving from BO to FO. No one said it’s impossible, but the success stories travel much faster than the fail stories. 1 makes it, could easily mean 99 failed. You interned at Goldman, and apparently didn’t get the full time job offer. That’s why you had to go to the BO of a F500 firm, correct? If you took this job, you definitely would have taken a BO job at Goldman if they gave you an offer. You don’t even work a bulge bracket investment bank now, and didn’t go to a top tier school. You have no idea how many thousands of people are far ahead of you in work experience and top degrees. I’m done with this thread.
iteracom Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > So a few months out of undergrad, and you think > the rest of us with years of experience in the > industry are all wrong about moving from BO to FO. > No one said it’s impossible, but the success > stories travel much faster than the fail stories. > 1 makes it, could easily mean 99 failed. > > You interned at Goldman, and apparently didn’t get > the full time job offer. That’s why you had to go > to the BO of a F500 firm, correct? If you took > this job, you definitely would have taken a BO job > at Goldman if they gave you an offer. > > You don’t even work a bulge bracket investment > bank now, and didn’t go to a top tier school. > You have no idea how many thousands of people are > far ahead of you in work experience and top > degrees. > > I’m done with this thread. Whoa…chill out bro. No need to get so pissy. I didn’t say you all didn’t know what you were talking about, and I didn’t say I know everything there is to know. But I’m definitely not going to hang my head and resign myself to the BO just because you say it’s difficult to transition. And I like my current job a lot more than the job I would have had at GS if I was offered a position. People take message boards too seriously. I’m sure you don’t talk so tough in person. Anyone actually have anything useful to add?
iteracom, you sound really bitter. Careful, sometimes attitude is more important than pedigree for career progression. Nobody wants to work with a grouch. To the OP, as has been stated on this thread it can be done. Take and pass CFA exam, network with other people in the firm, have clear goals (what, where, when, how) and bust your a$$. You can’t just take a test to make positive career change, you need to change your skill set, recognize why you don’t currently have the job you want and do everything you can to make you profile match the resumes of people in your target job.
By the way, you said you like your current BO job (rec bank accounts, move cash, record keeping entries…) a lot more than the job at GS. Well, did you mop the floor at GS? If we don’t take your post seriously, you would have gotten answers such as… “ask your mother” type of shit. Would you rather have that? As you said, if moving from BO to FO is that easy (you basically get credit for not making mistakes…) at your job, just pass the level 1 and you will be a portfolio manager or CFO.
brain_wash_your_face Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > iteracom, you sound really bitter. Careful, > sometimes attitude is more important than pedigree > for career progression. Nobody wants to work with > a grouch. > > To the OP, as has been stated on this thread it > can be done. Take and pass CFA exam, network with > other people in the firm, have clear goals (what, > where, when, how) and bust your a$$. You can’t > just take a test to make positive career change, > you need to change your skill set, recognize why > you don’t currently have the job you want and do > everything you can to make you profile match the > resumes of people in your target job. Thank you. This post I can use to help myself.
dhyun3 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > By the way, you said you love your current BO job > (rec bank accounts, move cash, record keeping > entries…) more than the job at GS. Well, did you > mop the floor at GS? If we don’t take your post > seriously, you would have gotten answers such > as… “ask your mother” type of shit. Would you > rather have that? > > As you said, if moving from BO to FO is that easy > (you basically get credit for not making > mistakes…) at your job, just pass the level 1 > and you will be a portfolio manager or CFO. Ok, exactly where did I say I loved my job? Oh, that’s right I didn’t. People can be such cu nts.
Ah, you’re right. I just edited it… “Love it” —> “like it a lot more”
Ok, I have to reply because I’m definitely not bitter. OP wanted opinions on “Will pass L1 be enough… etc” and answer is a solid ‘no’. But the argument he’s continuing with doesn’t add up. I agree with dyhun3. Operations is already the BOTTOM of the barrel. Choosing Ops at some F500 versus GS, nearly everyone would choose GS. So, GS didn’t give you a full time offer, but you claimed if they did, you would still take the BO of some insurance company? It really makes people wonder what the heck you were doing at GS.
The position at GS was also in the BO. Don’t know how much you know about the firm, but the culture there was extremely political/bureaucratic. Even though everyone I worked with there was in the back office, they acted as if their work was equivalent to that of the traders and bankers at the firm. At my current job, the people are much more down to earth and honest about what they do; they realize that it’s just operations. Didn’t mean to ruffle feathers here.
iteracom Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > > I agree with dyhun3. Operations is already the > BOTTOM of the barrel. What about those in the call center answering mutual funds questions? And discount brokers?
If you’re going to sit numb in a BO and wait for a miracle switch to happen, just like a lot of people in BO, then good luck and you are dreaming about rare chances, and this is probably the BO->FO shift route iteracom talking about, I agree it’s definitely rare. But BO->FO, if you try to improve yourself, make some switches, improve your competency, network, and target a top MBA program, then it’s not rare. I’ve seen many many achieving that. Life might be cruel and unfair, but if you weren’t at right place at right time, that doesn’t mean end of life. My perceptions are vastly different on BO->FO shift and targeting a top MBA because I think it can be done (with certainty) if you put in some effort, I wish I had skills to express my opinions with out hurting tons of floundering egos. Someone followed a traditional route doesn’t mean there aren’t other routes… but hey, can he/she swallow his ego to accept that and give a better advice, sadly for a public forum, the answer is NO. Being realistic is good, but pessimism isn’t solution of anything. @marsilini: BO isn’t end of life, keep you options open, be open to moving around, focus on career advancement, and target a top MBA, FO will follow. That’s my strategy and advice being a BO’er my self, observing many who did this, to some people it took as much as 8-10 years. But does it really matter, if you do something in 8 years which others do in 5 or 4 (primarily because of being at right place at right time). Point is, can you swallow your ego and don’t fuss about having bad luck. Can you really swallow your ego and accept that you will have to make up for your bad luck (it sucks but it’s the case with life), ultimately, only that will decide the choices you’ll take where you’ll end up. That was just a personal opinion.
marsilni Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The position at GS was also in the BO. Don’t know > how much you know about the firm, but the culture > there was extremely political/bureaucratic. Even > though everyone I worked with there was in the > back office, they acted as if their work was > equivalent to that of the traders and bankers at > the firm. At my current job, the people are much > more down to earth and honest about what they do; > they realize that it’s just operations. > > Didn’t mean to ruffle feathers here. I didn’t want to spark any hate either. My mistake if it came off that way. But I am very familiar with GS having worked there for several years, and I completely understand what you are saying. I also met some people in GS BO who really thought they were hotshots (even though they were doing things like checking cash pmts). Personally though, I would suck it up and take it anyway, because it is a good name to have on the resume. At the end, everyone on this forum will agree that pursuing the CFA charter can only help you, especially at this early stage in your career. Best of luck