brain_wash_your_face Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I didn’t realize it was a discussion of US versus > PRC, I was just talking about PRC in and of > itself. Of course, there is ridiculous stuff in > the the US as well. > > CTikka’s post was interesting, but the use of > “Asian” to describe a multitude of countries when > his experience is clearly mostly in India is > probably not appropriate. I should explain that I am not a China expert, which is why I avoided speaking directly about it in my post. I do have meaningful experience in the following Asian areas/countries: India, Lanka, UAE, Pakistan, Thailand, Indo, Hong Kong and the CIS. I have not done too much with mainland China. Would like too in the future. My post really only cites details about the USA and I do this because I’m american. I do not want to speak specifically about a nationality because I do not wish to be accused again of picking on them as had been the case before. I do believe my assertions are correct for the majority of Asia, at least from what I have seen of it, and perhaps all over the world and even the West to a lesser degree. I would argue that these assertions are more relevant in Asia than in the West. I am not, only referring to India. Let me be emphatic about that before anyone gets sensitive. Just to be clear those assertions were that: 1. Your parents are a much greater determinant in what you do with your life than in the West. When people in South Asia don’t have last names they usually just put down the occupation of their Father. 2. If you are from a rural area, you stand very little chance of being upwardly mobile in a modern setting. As you do not have a the skill set to succeed in a 21st century world you become a huge liability for the nation that rules you. As a result the government is set with the task of either appeasing you or controlling you by whatever means are at their disposal. This can include censorship and other atrocities or outright bribery as is quite common where I live. It is even what we do in America with farmers when we subsidize them. 3. The Leitmotif of my statement - That life in the West can feel more oppressive than in Asia. See previous post. I wonder, and this is just a question, does china really have such a hard time feeding its people? Why don’t they use some of their dollars to buy American exported food and lower the trade balance. We have lots of subsidized excess food that we would love to sell to China. Or is it just not a national priority? Do they really want to feed and grow this population of rural dwellers? Does the food and money just not get there thanks to corruption?
Since we are on China, I wonder What people think of Dali Lama. He is a considered like god-like person in the US. Meeting him is like a realy treat. But Chinese media paints him as one of the most hated bad guys. Thoughts?
I don’t think I would think much of him if he still ruled Tibet. His saving grace, in my opinion, is that he was deposed and has had to work towards an aim other than being the ruler of Tibet.
sundevl21 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > That’s a pretty bold assertion saying people > complaining about censorship in China are looking > for porn. I lived there and while I wasn’t > overly-frustrated with the censorship, it blocked > out Youtube and Facebook all the time and Gmail > was hit-and-miss. Spoke with friends over there > during the feared jasmine rebellion a few months > back and they couldn’t even use the characters for > “tomorrow” on the various blogging and social > networking sites. Seems a little excessive. This is the third or fourth time this month I’ve said something as an illustration and people suddenly start translating it into “bchad is saying *all* people are like that… bad, bad, bchad!” Has the ability to separate “illustrative example” from “law of the universe” evaporated from this site? What I said is, “I think Westerners are most likely to notice censorship if they are looking for porn.” This is in the context of someone saying “I didn’t notice any censorship,” and my basic message was “You often don’t notice what you didn’t know wasn’t there.” You often have to look for something and find it blocked to realize that it’s being censored. For an average westerner on a 1m trip to China, what are people going to look for and find blocked? Well, porn is something that they *might* look for and might notice. The best tour package for city X and where to get a hotel or buy a product is probably not going to be censored. I haven’t been to China since joining Facebook, so I didn’t know that facebook was censored too. That would have been a better example, except I didn’t know about it. I did think about mentioning the Arab revolutions, but I didn’t know for sure if China had censored them or not. I think I read that what the Chinese did with those events is to give highly “sanitized” versions of events, which is often harder to notice and work around than outright blockage of stuff.
brain_wash_your_face Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > bchadwick Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I think travelers notice censorship most if > they > > are looking for porn, which I believe is still > > censored in China, and certainly any attempt to > > look for prostitution online. Most westerners > > don’t go to China and say “Hmmm… I want to > look > > up the truth on Tienanmen Square in 1990,” but > > you’ll find that pretty scrubbed. > > Or if you are attempting to do research on the > Chinese economy or political system. True, at least for the political research, but if you are doing that, you already know to be careful what you do online. And I think the typical traveller is not doing that. People on this board are more likely to do it, I agree. When I was in China last, I was overdue on a project doing comparative risks for mining companies in Latin America, and I figured I’d finish it up on my first day or two in China. Most of the information was fairly harmless, and none of it actually pertained to China, but I did recall that two sites I tried to get to were clearly blocked. One was the CIA World Factbook, which I used just for some reference material. Ooops! I must admit sweating a bit when being told I wasn’t allowed to access the CIA website while in China. The other was some information on NGO activities. The project involved trying to see if NGOs were in certain countries were likely to protest or raise fusses about new mining operations. None of this was in China, so I didn’t originally think it would be an issue. But of course, China doesn’t want local organizations learning from protest movements abroad, so it did turn out to be censored stuff. Fortunately, no police officers showed up at my door, but I’m sure I showed up on someone’s computer screen for extra investigation.
Bchad, I think it’s a pretty strong assertion to say that everyone on this board is taking everything you say completely out of context and misconstruing your examples.
heh heh
This is the internet. Nobody is actually paying attention.
interesting thread …
bchadwick Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Most westerners > don’t go to China and say “Hmmm… I want to look > up the truth on Tienanmen Square in 1990,” but > you’ll find that pretty scrubbed. Does the US censor the internet too? I googled, binged and yahooed and couldn’t find any significant event happend on Tienanmen Square in 1990…
My mistake… it was 1989
bchadwick Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > My mistake… it was 1989 Everyone is picking on you today Mr Chadwick.
Ha! Hope you take my quirky sense of humor in a light-hearted way. happy friday…
AlphaSeeker Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Since we are on China, I wonder What people think > of Dali Lama. Big hitter, the Lama
AlphaSeeker Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Since we are on China, I wonder What people think > of Dali Lama. > > He is a considered like god-like person in the US. > Meeting him is like a realy treat. > > But Chinese media paints him as one of the most > hated bad guys. > > Thoughts? There’s no way you have a top three MBA, you can’t even communicate properly.
^ Ha! What are you talking about?! If my posts can piss you off, I think I am communicating pretty well… But seriously, my writing sucks. If you go back to my earlier posts, you’ll see that you are not the first to attack my writing and I also admit that I rarely proof read what I write here. Enough about me, what do you think of Dali Lama? You can’t attack my post and not exchange your views or ideas on it.
AlphaSeeker Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ^ > Ha! What are you talking about?! > > If my posts can piss you off, I think I am > communicating pretty well… > > But seriously, my writing sucks. If you go back to > my earlier posts, you’ll see that you are not the > first to attack my writing and I also admit that I > rarely proof read what I write here. > > Enough about me, what do you think of Dali Lama? > > You can’t attack my post and not exchange your > views or ideas on it. meh, he has some powerful insights and is definitely a very spiritually wise person but I don’t idolize living religious figures and I’m not really into Tibetan Buddhism.
Yeah, I’ve never really got what all the fuss is about with the Dali Lama. Then again, I never really cared much for famous people to begin with.
I like him, and do feel he and his people got a raw deal from the Chinese. And I admire the personal qualities that he has to demonstrate to achieve the things he’s achieved and maintain the semblance of a government-in-exile. It does seem that that particular part of his work hasn’t really succeeded, though. When he dies, or goes on to the next life, it looks like the Chinese will just consolidate their grip. At the same time, I don’t get all the fuss that others make over him. Sure, I admire him, but I don’t get all excited and lose control of myself thinking that he might be in town or speaking or whatnot. Reminds me a bit of the crowd chasing after Brian in The Life of Brian.