adavydov7 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > No I won’t, there is a reason I am more > “fortunate” than others! I don’t buy your BS > deterministic arguments, take them to church if > you wish but please don’t try to argue them here. So you come from Russia with your parents, you’re dirt poor, got nothing, someway somehow they managed to get you out of that shit hole and now that you got some useless degrees you feel good about yourself and forget where you came from ?
“someway somehow:” my parents and I both worked to get everything that we have, never asked or got anything from the American government other than the opportunity to live here. We don’t mind my paying our own way (nor will we ever ask for anyone else’s help in paying our way), but we will vehemently refuse to pay the way of anyone else! “now that you got some useless degrees you feel good about yourself and forget where you came from?” So why don’t the idiots without insurance go get these degrees then? If I didn’t get these degrees I would go work at MacDonalds and use condoms so that I wouldn’t have 15 babies!
You still got lucky. I am sure there are thousands of Russian scientists much smarter than you who are still trapped over there and for all their hard work are stuck making less than minimum wage in the US. Appreciate the break you got and don’t hate those who were not as lucky as you.
I see no hate coming from adavydov7, he’s the epitome of the American Dream. If I were him I’d be sickened by those Americans taking handouts.
adavydov7 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > “someway somehow:” my parents and I both worked to > get everything that we have, never asked or got > anything from the American government other than > the opportunity to live here. We don’t mind my > paying our own way (nor will we ever ask for > anyone else’s help in paying our way), but we will > vehemently refuse to pay the way of anyone else! again, like i’ve said before, without the capital cost of the infrastructure within the U.S., you would not have been able to pull yourself out of poverty. without social programs to assist those in the low income brackets, you would have been killed or continuously robbed, and you wouldn’t be where you are today. without police and firemen, you may have died or your assets may have disappeared. to make this relevant to assisting those internationally: without helping those who are desperate, you are only helping them harbour more pirates, more murderers, more thieves, bringing the cost of all these people to you anyways. leaving a country behind and not utilizing their manpower/resources, makes everything in the world more expensive for you. in the end, you’ll be paying for it anyways, so you might as well give them a hand so they don’t have to suffer while you pay the same amount. if its a country with a little more power, you create enemies with armies and that can only lead to wealth destruction. if you ignore the big picture, you’re not seeing anything. everything does not come with a direct cost but the costs will come nonetheless. if you believe that a poor person can rise from nothing and turn themselves into something, you must believe that we choose our own fate and that we have free will. if so, then we are able to choose the path by which we associate with all people on this earth, and wars can be prevented, and economies can be built, benefiting all people in the end, from a cost POV most specifically.
“now that you got some useless degrees you feel good about yourself and forget where you came from?” So why don’t the idiots without insurance go get these degrees then? If I didn’t get these degrees I would go work at MacDonalds and use condoms so that I wouldn’t have 15 babies!" Wow. I was messing with you guys earlier but that comment you made is absurd. Its so funny that you don’t realize the simple fact that you had parents who worked hard and encouraged you to work hard is a blessing. You don’t choose what family you are born into, nor do do you have a choice of what neighborhood you are born in. Maybe if smart guys like you with fancy degrees gave a damn and actually tried to give back there would be some progress in this country. Why don’t you try helping one of those 15 kids so that they have the opportunity to break the cycle and maybe be as fortunate as you one day.
@mo34: sure luck has to do a lot with where I am today, but unfortunately luck cannot be fixed and rationed out, there will always be winners and losers, its a fact of life that one has to accept (I realize this may not be the most fair statement considering I myself likely belong in the “lucky” column, but honestly I don’t care because the most important thing in this world to, to me, and the one thing that may have a lasting impact on this world, is my family and my future children not anyone else’s, if you have kids I dare you to say otherwise!). @Matt: sure without America’s infrastructure (crumbling by the way, to the tune of 2trillion) I wouldn’t have, but guess what that infrastructure wouldn’t be there were it not for the work and efforts of immigrants like myself and my parents who put in a disproportionate amount of work and efforts to say the average 4th or 5th or beyond generation family. Like I said before, neither my parents nor I have ever taken anything from the US government (only given and perhaps this explains my view of things); social programs and low income assistance never did anything for us! Also, you misunderstand what I am saying, I am not saying I am against all taxes, I understand and am even willing to pay taxes at a commensurate rate so long as they are used wisely and efficiently! My problem is with our government, politicians, waste, inefficiency and the sheer stupidity of the majority of our policies. In fact quite to the contrary to what you say I think human capital should be cultivated, again efficiently, and only when it is shown that there is none left to rot in the streets. Instead of giving our money to Haiti, fighting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, or saving companies that have failed the market mandate and should be allowed to die or given funds for EQUITY or OPTIONS not outright at nearly the risk free rate So you see I am not ignoring the big picture, and I am not as big and bad as the Republican you are trying to make me out to be, in fact my loathing of Republicans is only slightly surpassed by my loathing of Democrats (they are all politicians after all!). Most of what I say comes of as very hardline and downright mean until you start reading into the nuances of what I am saying!
@thecharter: ignorant to assume I don’t know how “blessed” I was. More ignorant to assume I don’t help out those 15 kids (volunteer at inter-city schools teaching a Finance 101 type course as well as participate in annual trading competition put on locally by my organization). What all of you are missing is that I am not angry with the less fortunate for being less fortunate. I mad at the money I pay to our retarded government and how they allocate it (including to help the less fortunate); I am all for giving people a hand up if they want to take it (because ultimately this will have a positive net return for me, my children, and this country), but I am not okay with throwing away money on lost or wasted (not in the drunk sense of course) individuals!
adavydov7: in theory your points have some merit, but in practice they don’t make sense. Take for example, a server at a restaurant. They work very hard for their money (I know, I used to do it), and if you’re at a slow place it can be really tough to make ends meet, let alone pay for health insurance. You make probably $3 an hour in salary (I don’t know what it is exactly anymore), and then whatever you get in tips. If you want to pay for health insurance (which not all restaurants even offer), you can give them your check, plus pay more from your tip money…which doesn’t leave you much at your average restaurant job. If you get sick for a week, you don’t get paid time off. So now you have a choice of possibly not being able to pay your bills and going to a doctor, or going back to work sick and getting everyone else sick, adding extra burden to the health care system. Then, if you get something really serious like cancer or a heart condition, what are you supposed to do? This is what leads people to bankruptcy, and that’s not right in my mind. I don’t like this current version of the bill at all, and I hope it doesn’t pass, but something needs to be done. People like you need to walk in other peoples’ shoes from time-to-time and realize that it’s not all black and white.
^Lol I’ve worked at several restaurants before and did well for myself (and I don’t want to hear that crap about we can’t make it work, trust me my family made it work for 4 years in Canada and 2 years in the States, we didn’t have a car we rode bikes, everywhere we needed to go, that we bought at garage sales or found on the side of the road and fixed up; I have had a steady job since I was 8 years old and consistently contributed my earnings to the family fund until my folks found better paying jobs; never once during htis whole time did we take a penny for the government for anything while paying in more than our fair share). So like I said I don’t want to hear your crap about ohh these people are so unfortunate and ohh they can’t make it work because they need a car that has 24s on it or AirForce Ones for their babies, or a swampers on their 1969 chevy truck! If they don’t like working at a restaurant get a better job or get an education or MAKE IT WORK LIKE MY FAMILY AND I DID!!! And by the way catastrophic insurance isn’t that expensive. Furthermore a legitimate government policy that treats insurance as such (i.e. protection against catastrophic and potentially bankruptcy inducing events, not a free for all where you pay $20 for pretty much anything and are off the hook thereafter) could focus on providing or channeling people into getting emergency insurance while saving for day to day health needs on their own. Not only would this teach people responsibility and saving (if they want health care and/or to live) but it would also provide the impetus to lead a healthier lifestyle fueled by the very real prospect of potential savings. Ultimately, I do understand that my ideas aren’t practicable, I mean com’on can you imagine the sh!t storm on CNN if one person was denied medical care because they couldn’t pay for it? Read that last statement again and think about how fuking ridiculous it sounds!!! Do you go to a car dealership and expect them to give you a free car, to HR and expect them to do your taxes for free, or to a restaurant and expect free food? Hell no, so why should this be any different? LASTLY DON’T FUCKING TELL ME TO WALK IN OTHER PEOPLE’S SHOES WHEN I SPENT A MAJOR PART OF MY LIFE WALKING IN THOSE VERY SAME FOOTSTEPS!!!
Lol, I like this Russian explosive dude.
I wonder what your new screen name is going to be?
By the way, I’m not telling on you or anything…I’d just be surprised if they let that one ride (especially in all angry caps)! You believe in an ideology that doesn’t work when applied in real life. I do respect you for your hard work (I’ve never taken any handouts either), but there are people who need help sometimes…like it or not. There are definitely too many people that milk the system, but that’s a different story…that takes another kind of reform.
@ adavydov7 I can understand your point of view. I also think that MattLikesHitler and mo34 have some points too. Anyways, I’ve been in some heated fights before - and it’s almost always not worth to get really worked up on the internet. Maybe say a few last words and don’t post anymore on this subject, since it just wastes a lot of time and really ruins your day.
Well considering the fact that there is an infinite amount of numbers before and after 7 I am pretty such I’m covered. Thanks for your concern though.
^ and the reason I say that I understand your point of view is because I’m from a similar background. our family was supported by church groups, on welfare, and on foodstamps. we are out of it now, but we had to work god damn hard to get out of that whole as no name immigrants.
@sub: Oh I don’t get worked up too bad over this at all (caps or not) in fact since its been a slow day I will use my posts to wake myself up from the readings on writing IPS for DB pension plans. All in all I have heard these same arguments regurgitated over and over and over again by so many different people that it makes me sick that an original thought is so hard to come by on the issue (I attribute this to the effective level of brainwashing that occurs from a young age in this nation without anyone stopping to ask Why?). And I concede, as I have above, that mo and Matt have some points. @chris: “You believe in an ideology that doesn’t work when applied in real life.” Lol 1. How the hell do you know that it wouldn’t, have you tried? 2. You are confusing what I say “working” with “happening,” please read carefully next time I believe my ideology CAN work, but I don’t think it will ever be given the opportunity TO work (however, I will take any marginal step towards and fight for it all the way) 3. How is your ideology different? Other than of course the fact that we already KNOW that it DOESN’T WORK?! And that it is in fact NOT applicable to real life!? 4. At least I can admit and see that my ideal society will likely never come about, whereas those pushing for the healthcare plan are so delusional that they actually think that any sort of good can come from it (not necessarily aimed at you chris since you said you don’t like the bill); AKA Pelosi. “but there are people who need help sometimes…like it or not” 5. YOU NEED TO READ MY POSTS CAREFULLY! I said I am all in favor of a hand up so long as it is properly structured! “There are definitely too many people that milk the system, but that’s a different story…that takes another kind of reform.” 6. No it isn’t! This is the story! The whole story! These people deserve less than nothing! These are the lazy bastards that deserve to die and rot in the street! These are the people that are no better than garbage! These are the people that take away the few opportunities that the less privileged may have available to them and squander them through suboptimal allocation of those opportunities! These are the people that society needs to expel! AND THERE ARE MILLIONS OF THEM (BTW this includes the majority of our politicians!)!!!
ah great…well, i enjoy the fighting. best free entertainment ever!
I did read your posts carefully, and I seem to remember this one, “…they all deserve to die if they can’t pay for it.” That doesn’t say anything about a hand up…that’s saying that Sublimity should be dead! So not only are you using angry all caps curse words, you’re making retroactive threats! LOL
^So I guess you missed my posts from 2:09 and 2:14 where I expound on who deserves to die and why? The idea is that people that get a proper hand up would be able to pay for their healthcare and other needs and so wouldn’t have to die! If you are too dense to connect the dots in what I am saying not my fault, but its getting tiresome connecting them for you. So use a pencil that way you can try to figure out what I am saying ad infinitum and if you make a mistake you can just erase and try again. Also you can take solace in the fact that after a million years or so even a monkey would be able to connect all the dots in my argument, so here’s to hoping you can do the same a bit more rapidly!