Hi, I’ve been reading a lot of discussion of corporate finance. I myself am interested in getting into a corporate finance position, more specifically, with a Big 4 accounting firm. I’ll be graduating in dec with an MS Accounting (BA Finance) and just recently gave my level 2. I was hoping if someone could shed some light into the job profiles of corporate finance jobs with a firm as opposed to corporate finance jobs with the big 4. I do know the basic differences, but it’ll be better if someone can get into the nitty gritties, for ex. the type of skill set differences between both, the experience that may be required, the exit opps. Does the location matter as well for exit opportunities? I am trying to apply wherever I can try and get corporate finance positions including Asia and the middle east. Also, how much is the CPA really relevant with corporate finance positions in the big 4? Is it really necessary or will the CFA knowledge suffice? I want to stick to a finance related role, but I don’t mind getting my CPA if it is required.
Anyone willing to help out? Your answers will be highly appreciated. Thanks…
Any1?
search for such info on this forum for BIG 4, CPA will ALWAYS be a requirement…other qualifications will be favorable… The BIG 4 have valuations group that does purchase price allocation/impairment testing/stock valuation where CPA/CFA/MBA are preferred.
thank you sid…
who did you give your level 2 to?
If you want a finance position, some HR types will likely ask you why you chose to pursue your MS in accounting rather than finance, or an MBA - so be prepared for that. I would say in terms of technical skills CFA teaches you just about everything you would learn in a MS in finance - however it lacks the practical application that you would get in an MBA program (which is the only real benefit to MBA in my experience). I wouldn’t bother with CPA, your masters and CFA should be enough to get you in the door, what really may or may not be lacking is your relevant working experience.
Yea…I see what you’re saying…the only reason I wanted to do MS Accounting is so that I can try to get into one of the big 4…and i am doing the CFA…and honestly…after even doing level 1…i think i knew a lot more than what some of my friends who are pursuing CPA did… (no offense to CPAs)…but some of them didn’t even know how to interpret 10Ks…so i think i am at a much better position candidate-wise…thats why i am not too worried about doing the CPA…only think at a disadvantage for me i feel is my work experience…i did a couple…but not with the big 4…i only hope that this shuldn’t be a major hurdle…any1 here that works for the big 4 that could shed some light into what skill sets they look for with the candidates at FAS?
Sparty419, FAS is rather broad with different skills sets and different emphasis of value (additionally, different things technically role into FAS depending on the firm)…might cut it down in terms of the focus for a better reply. Note: I am not in FAS. I worked in Deloitte Audit, considered to move to a couple of FAS groups, but left to industry. May go back in a year or two (likely with another big 4 FAS or Deloitte M&A), but what is important really depends on which area (due diligence vs Real Estate Valuation would have a different focus).
plus with CPA keep in mind that you have to meet the public accting work experience requirement - I think it’s a year but I might be wrong.
Hi kevin, I know Deloitte has its own corporate finance department, but within the other big 3…which would be considered the most finance oriented?
Well, not sure in the others as I think even in Deloitte some of the parts of the valuations groups that roll into FAS are pretty finance oriented, even as much as corp fin. However, last time I talked with a west coast partner in Corp Fin and for Deloitte it was (2 years ago) VERY SMALL. I know PwC has TAS, but that includes Capital market group and TS (Financial Due diligence and I believe some post deal work)…but both of these would really be more accounting from what the recruiter told me. What type of work exactly are you looking for? Perhaps I could ask some of my friends which group it would be and you could know where to look? I dont know anyone specifically at KPMG though…
HI Kevin, I am looking for a finance oreinted role in one of the big 4…but it doesn’t have to be very hardcore finance. I took the MS accoutning program and specialized in management consulting and they said it would help get into a FAS/TAS career profile. I really enjoyed the content as it has a good mix between both accounting and finance. That’s when I started getting curious about the FAS departments of the big 4 and realised that not all of the job profiles there are finance related (as you also mentioned this point). And I was browsing thru Deloitte’s site and saw that they have a very distinct corporate finance department, whereas it wasn’t very conspicuous in the other 3. Hence, my question…Hope that helps…
Send me an email at kevin underscore f1 at hotmail .com and I think I can elaborate better…at least from my experiences and conversations.
Sparty: You go to MSU?
Sparty: I work in Big Four Corporate Finance in Canada. Corporate Finance (CF) is very different from what most of the firms in the U.S. do, which is called “Transaction Services” (TS). CF essentially operates as a mid-market investment bank doing almost exclusively sell-side deals. TS is confirmatory due diligence (e.g. come in at the end of a deal and do the checks and balances). TS is huge in the U.S. Contrastingly, many of the Big Four don’t even have a CF practice in the U.S. due to regulatory issues and risks given that their core focus is on public company audits. We have had some pretty extensive conversations about this somewhere. I’ll find the link and post it. Here is an example of KPMG Corporate Finance vs. KPMG Transaction Services KPMG Corporate Finance (notice team is made up of bankers and there is an IB structure): http://www.kpmgcorporatefinance.com/home/ KPMG Transaction Services (audit type work and accountants performing the work): http://www.us.kpmg.com/services/content.asp?l1id=10&l2id=0&cid=1770 The CF practice I work in has CFAs, MBAs, CAs (Canadian version of CPA), etc. Most have two credentials. I am a CA and just wrote Level 2…also have a BCom. Feel free to ask any specific questions. The work is generally sell-side, smaller end of the mid-market deals (i.e.
Here is the link and some pieces of info from the discussion are posted below: One positive missing from the discussion concerning TS is that you can get the opportunity to work on very large deals. Accounting firms due the final buy-side due diligence (usually hired by Board of Directors) on most large deals that are run by banks on the sell-side. CF, however, is mostly sell-side smaller deals that the banks won’t work the sell-side on. http://www.analystforum.com/phorums/read.php?1,784690,page=1 You can also work in Corporate Finance (CF) at a Big Four to get sell-side experience with a view to moving on to a bank. The Big Four in Canada all provide mid-market sell-side investment banking services, with the exception of underwriting. Generally sale mandates of private businesses, raising PE or debt financing, etc. They don’t provide much of these services in the U.S. due to regulatory concerns. I think KPMG Corporate Finance Inc. is the only one providing IB in the U.S. Most of the finance related work performed by the Big Four in the U.S. is “Transaction Services” (i.e. due diligence) which is completely different from CF. ANOTHER POST …Concerning the different designations - CA - CBV - CFA and the usefulness of Big Four Advisory experience in getting into IB. I work in the corporate finance & investment banking group of one of the Big Four. The work is 90% sell-side where we advise mid-market clients in sale or capital raise mandates including running the entire process (usually in an auction environment). So I can tell you first hand that financial advisory (FAS) would definitely be helpful for moving into banking because a lot of the work is the same stuff that you would do at a bank (e.g. preparing pitch books, financing memorandums, financial modeling, negotiating with buyers / investors, etc.) We just do it on a smaller scale (mid-market…the stuff that flys below the big banks radar) and do not do underwriting. So out mandates are usually sales of private businesses or raising private equity financing. With that said, not all areas of FAS would be very helpful. Corporate Finance (CF) is where you will get the experience noted above. Transaction Services (TS or due diligence) is different and is essentially glorified audit…but obviously would be more applicable to banking than standard audit because you’re still working on deals…you’re just not getting exposure until the deal is all but completed and you come in to do the final checks and balances. Restructuring, again would be better than audit but it is not great deal experience in my opinion, as it usually involves a lot of bankruptcy / court process paper shuffling, especially at the junior levels. Another consideration is which of the Big Four you work at and how strong their CF group is in the particular city that you work in. There is great variation in this component, as a couple of the Big Four in each city seem to be much more dominant in the mid-market than the other two. Some of the Big Four CF groups in any given city have 2 or 3 people and complete a couple deals a year. Others have 10 or more professionals and a very strong deal flow. Deal flow can be the difference between spending your year working on live deals and getting real experience or spending your year in PPoint building pitch books because you have no work. You need to do your own due diligence before signing on with any group. The banks do make attempts to recruit some of us from Big Four CF because they know that they’re getting a CA with relevant experience. I would not change to a bank at this point because I have friends at the banks who do similar work but they leave the office at midnight every night and I leave at 7pm (midnight occasionally but very rare). The trade-off of more pay for my personal life is just not worth it to me. I agree with your comment that the CA is perceived very, very different from the CPA.
Hi Bhill, Just went through your comments. I found it very helpful. I’ll go through the link you have provided in more detail and will get back to you with questions. Kevin, I’ll send you an email too once I go thru the forum discussion… Go Blue - Yup…MSU. Thanks once again.
Hi Bhill, Do you have like an email id i could ask my questions thru? tks
bhill020 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Sparty: > > I work in Big Four Corporate Finance in Canada. > Corporate Finance (CF) is very different from what > most of the firms in the U.S. do, which is called > “Transaction Services” (TS). CF essentially > operates as a mid-market investment bank doing > almost exclusively sell-side deals. TS is > confirmatory due diligence (e.g. come in at the > end of a deal and do the checks and balances). TS > is huge in the U.S. Contrastingly, many of the > Big Four don’t even have a CF practice in the U.S. > due to regulatory issues and risks given that > their core focus is on public company audits. > > We have had some pretty extensive conversations > about this somewhere. I’ll find the link and post > it. > > Here is an example of KPMG Corporate Finance vs. > KPMG Transaction Services > > KPMG Corporate Finance (notice team is made up of > bankers and there is an IB structure): > http://www.kpmgcorporatefinance.com/home/ > > KPMG Transaction Services (audit type work and > accountants performing the work): > http://www.us.kpmg.com/services/content.asp?l1id=1 > 0&l2id=0&cid=1770 > > The CF practice I work in has CFAs, MBAs, CAs > (Canadian version of CPA), etc. Most have two > credentials. I am a CA and just wrote Level > 2…also have a BCom. Feel free to ask any > specific questions. The work is generally > sell-side, smaller end of the mid-market deals > (i.e. a bank but the hours are much better. The pay is > less than banks but it’s a fair trade off to have > a personal life, as the pay is still healthy. you are exactly where i want to be. do you mind telling me what city you work in?