I’m dying to see this exam. With all dues respect to mo34’s well-reasoned defense of the exam, this thread is unlike anything I’ve seen with the CFA exams. If a whole bunch of apparently well-studied and smart people are griping this much about the exam, it’s nearly a prima facie case that something got messed (although reverse cash and carry as a whipping boy doesn’t seem right to me). Here are some ideas about what might have happened: a) Someone new is in charge of putting together the exam and did exactly what Mellon did on the first exam he made up - made it excruciatingly difficult because that’s what people do on their first exam. Every graduate student does that. I’ll bet mo did that. The first calculus exam I gave, the average was a 26 (I gave all A’s and B’s and apologized which will probably curl mo’s toes). b) Someone felt liberated by the two form format and decided that he could ask really specific but obscure questions. If you are worried about cheating, you are not going to ask a question that is completely detailed in 2 pages in the curriculum. c) CFAI is switching to a 50% pass rate on LIII which means they have a whole bunch of well-blooded and smart candidates and they have to find a way to fail half of them. Asking about core concepts just won’t do it.
Joey, I regard myself as a well-prepared candidate and someone who has probably taken more exams than many on this board and has never failed one. Yet it is unlikely I am going to make it this time as I attempted only 120 minutes of th AM exam. I never got to see questions 7 through 11. However, (1) The exam was easy and well balanced. I don’t subscribe to "why didn’t they ask that or why did they ask this?, etc. (2) Given enough time I could have done all 11 questions with high quality answers. So the issue is whether the exam was too long or did I screw up. As usual the answer is both. My best guess is that the exam was probably 20-30 minutes too long. So I am at the least half to blame. (3) There is no doubt that an attempt is being to obfuscate questions - just figuring out what is being asked for and what information is relevant was a real task in many questions. Under time pressure, this can wreak havoc. (4) Given (2) and (3), the test is, intentionally or unintentionally, definitely rewarding test-taking skills. Again whether this tilt is more than what is desirable is debatable, but my humble opinion is yes. In the end, however, it is me who is responsible for failing the exam for whatever reasons, as more than 50% or even more will manage to pass under identical conditions. Yes, it hurts a lot because I have nothing to show for six months of sacrifice and because I believe the result will not reflect my knowledge or preparation. But that’s life - sometime you just have to take it on the chin and move on.
CFAAtlanta, I agree with you. Such is life. One has to realize there are people who were better prepared or who could simply write faster. I mean, there will be people passing the exam, regardless of how hard it is.
JoeyDVivre Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I’m dying to see this exam. > > With all dues respect to mo34’s well-reasoned > defense of the exam, this thread is unlike > anything I’ve seen with the CFA exams. If a whole > bunch of apparently well-studied and smart people > are griping this much about the exam, it’s nearly > a prima facie case that something got messed > (although reverse cash and carry as a whipping boy > doesn’t seem right to me). Joey, it isn’t the difficulty of the exam that most are complaining about, it’s the time constraints. It seemed to me it was an exam meant to be written in at least 3 and a half hours. It was more of a speed test where you jot down the first thing that comes to mind instead of thinking before making intelligent responses. I’ve never written such an exam before and frankly I don’t believe it’s the best way to test someone’s knowledge. Time constraints was never a problem in previous years. I don’t know why all of a sudden they decided to make it the primary factor. I felt more like a chicken running around with my head cutoff. The odd thing in all of this is that the afternoon session could have easily been completed in 2 hours, as if they tested the time requirements of the two portions of the exam in 6 hours straight instead of two 3 hour sessions.
All, I was a retake, and I can tell you that 2008 was NOT more difficult than 2007. It was longer for sure by about 15 mins. The PM was MUCH easier than 2007. This is the source of the complaints: 1) The format for L3 is more difficult than the all MC you previously had. 2) The material is much broader than previous levels. 3) When you reviewed the prevous levels, you did so in an environment dissimilar to a true test. There is no way to duplicate the stress of knowing that a poor result means you will be back here next year. 4) You left the test feeling less sure about your success than the previous levels. Yes, the material is more difficult than L2. Yes, the format is more difficult. Yes, the test is more subjective. Yes, you don’t have the instant feedback of fidning an answer like multiple choice. We all have defense mechanisms we don’t intentionally use. I did it last year natually deferring to the pass rate versus the previous year. The format of the attribution question made me think CFAI had it out for Schweser. When I actually reviewed the test months later, I realized it was not really that difficult. I was just not as prepared as I should have been. You will do the same when the AM section is released.
I really don’t get why people are complaining about time constraints. I just don’t. It couldn’t be more straightforward since they tell you to spend X number of mins of Q1, Y mins on Q2, etc. If you can’t pick out the most salient points to fill X number of minutes, then your understanding is limited, even if your overall knowledge base may be considerable.
Etienne Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I really don’t get why people are complaining > about time constraints. I just don’t. It > couldn’t be more straightforward since they tell > you to spend X number of mins of Q1, Y mins on Q2, > etc. If you can’t pick out the most salient > points to fill X number of minutes, then your > understanding is limited, even if your overall > knowledge base may be considerable. Agreed. When I was reviewing schweser’s answers to the practice test questions…I noticed they has extremely short, sharp answers. Maybe the problem is that we knew the material well…but did not know how to answer the questions correctly. i.e. we wasted too much time writing long answers when short responses would suffice. Check out the guideline answers for the 2005,2006,2007 exams. Answers are fairly short and to the point. http://cfainstitute.org/cfaprog/courseofstudy/essaylevelthree.html
aarrrgghhh…i cannot resist. i am a darn good test taker, and will remain so regardless of what happens on this exam. i don’t have anything to prove to anyone - had perfect or near perfect SAT, SAT2, GMAT, GRE, CFA L1 CFA L2, PRM, CAIA L1, CAIA L2, yada yada scores. if it doesn’t happen this year for some reason, i will teach this test who is daddy next year. you wanna play dirty in 2008, no problem, there’s much much more where papa comes from for 2009. that said, i was very surprised by this AM test. when you are expected to master the sheer volume (find me another exam on earth which comes close - med school maybe?) that L3 required, the LOS become critical - otherwise you are boiling the ocean. btw, dunno if others agree, but i thought the LOS for L3 were extremely vague. after a while, i just started trying to master everything, rather than follow the LOS. so, on the AM, after all that joyful and fulfilling preparation, i was scratching my head wondering why L2 PBO/ABO calcs were on, why CPPI “130% cushion” calc was on (wtf is a ‘130% cushion’ anyway - damn it there’s a cushion, and a multiplier for how much in risky asset to hold. ‘130% cushion’ is a non-native speaker’s perversion of english). and the algo trading stuff - there’s barely a readable description in the CFA books (it shows in the answers everyone is guessing at on the forum). so thats as far as LOS perversion goes. the second issue is with the layout and formatting - some sorry sod needs to get fired for the sheer confusion about template/free write, etc. either go all template or all free write, please. …you pathetic sod… sorry, couldn’t resist. the third issue is with the memorization - for cryin out loud what is this thing - a bloomin memory test or what? in my loving affection for the mastery of L3 material, i had a 8 page formula summary list (a synthesized abridged set rewritten in my notation) - it took me 4 hours to flash test myself on the entire list - gosh i could even derive them from scratch for you if thats what makes the dopamine flow for you. how does this make me a better CFA? i call bullsh*t. finally, speed - any moron who expects buy side decisions to get taken at this speed, is on…speed. go to rehab. this was a 3.5 hour test at least. especially if you’re going to trick and confuse people with a corner portfolio problem that seemingly has no solution unless you fixate on the word ‘PLUS’, besides all the other cute, endearing gimmicry employed. this was a test of financial skills my a**. it was just as much a speed, memorization and shortcut/trick-detection exam. and mo34, etienne, etc., frankly i find bchadwick’s explanations and posts much more thoughtful, insightful, than your self-absorbed twitter, which is cute, amusing, etc. but no wisdom like chad and some others. an exam that gives guys like bchadwick doubts about his obvious mastery of the material is no fair exam. its a crapshoot, is what it is. i don’t recall paying $1000 and 6 months of my family & social life for a friggin 3-hour crapshoot.
if it is not a memorization test, you are kidding yourself. if you want real conceptual tests, take the maths olympiad exam or something.
Dsylexic Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > if it is not a memorization test, you are kidding > yourself. if you want real conceptual tests, take > the maths olympiad exam or something. ^^^-------- +10
I don’t know where I read it, I think it was actually on the CFAI website, but it said that the CFAI exam is purposely designed to test your speed since that’s what’s required in the fast paced environment of finance. I actually found the same experience with the Level 1 exam. 240 questions were mentally tough and draining for me, finding that many questions took longer than the 1.5 minutes alotted. By comparison Level 2 and Level 3 PM was a joke in comparison with only 60 questions per 3 hours, had to much time to spare!
Dsylexic Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > if it is not a memorization test, you are kidding > yourself. if you want real conceptual tests, take > the maths olympiad exam or something. and how does this memorization help you in real life? if i asked you today, i doubt many of us would remember 75% of the formulae. in another week, it’ll be 50%, and in a month 20%. so how does the ST memorization exercise real life success?
rohufish Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Dsylexic Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > if it is not a memorization test, you are > kidding > > yourself. if you want real conceptual tests, > take > > the maths olympiad exam or something. > > and how does this memorization help you in real > life? if i asked you today, i doubt many of us > would remember 75% of the formulae. in another > week, it’ll be 50%, and in a month 20%. so how > does the ST memorization exercise real life > success? That’s true. Look at how many of us had trouble with that FCFE question on the exam.
I like to use my ego defenses… "If only___ "… Yeah, I can pass, but “It didn’t happen yet.” It is interesting that in India, they decided to outlaw the American CFA and do their Indian professional designation. How many non-americans would prefer a different Finance Association than CFAI? I think this years exams will make many wonder if the ‘American’ CFAI designation is worth it or not. Especially, since the exam has become more about minutae and the grading is not very transparent. What’s wrong will revealing a numerical score? Like many others, I went thru each LOS and studied hard. I had no idea of caculating a 2-stage FCFE model or other items not mentioned in the LOSes.
rohufish Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > aarrrgghhh…i cannot resist. > > i am a darn good test taker, and will remain so > regardless of what happens on this exam. i don’t > have anything to prove to anyone - had perfect or > near perfect SAT, SAT2, GMAT, GRE, CFA L1 CFA L2, > PRM, CAIA L1, CAIA L2, yada yada scores. if it > doesn’t happen this year for some reason, i will > teach this test who is daddy next year. you wanna > play dirty in 2008, no problem, there’s much much > more where papa comes from for 2009. > > that said, i was very surprised by this AM test. > when you are expected to master the sheer volume > (find me another exam on earth which comes close - > med school maybe?) that L3 required, the LOS > become critical - otherwise you are boiling the > ocean. btw, dunno if others agree, but i thought > the LOS for L3 were extremely vague. after a > while, i just started trying to master everything, > rather than follow the LOS. > > so, on the AM, after all that joyful and > fulfilling preparation, i was scratching my head > wondering why L2 PBO/ABO calcs were on, why CPPI > “130% cushion” calc was on (wtf is a ‘130% > cushion’ anyway - damn it there’s a cushion, and a > multiplier for how much in risky asset to hold. > ‘130% cushion’ is a non-native speaker’s > perversion of english). and the algo trading stuff > - there’s barely a readable description in the CFA > books (it shows in the answers everyone is > guessing at on the forum). so thats as far as LOS > perversion goes. > > the second issue is with the layout and formatting > - some sorry sod needs to get fired for the sheer > confusion about template/free write, etc. either > go all template or all free write, please. …you > pathetic sod… sorry, couldn’t resist. > > the third issue is with the memorization - for > cryin out loud what is this thing - a bloomin > memory test or what? in my loving affection for > the mastery of L3 material, i had a 8 page formula > summary list (a synthesized abridged set rewritten > in my notation) - it took me 4 hours to flash test > myself on the entire list - gosh i could even > derive them from scratch for you if thats what > makes the dopamine flow for you. how does this > make me a better CFA? i call bullsh*t. > > finally, speed - any moron who expects buy side > decisions to get taken at this speed, is > on…speed. go to rehab. this was a 3.5 hour test > at least. especially if you’re going to trick and > confuse people with a corner portfolio problem > that seemingly has no solution unless you fixate > on the word ‘PLUS’, besides all the other cute, > endearing gimmicry employed. > > this was a test of financial skills my a**. it was > just as much a speed, memorization and > shortcut/trick-detection exam. and mo34, etienne, > etc., frankly i find bchadwick’s explanations and > posts much more thoughtful, insightful, than your > self-absorbed twitter, which is cute, amusing, > etc. but no wisdom like chad and some others. > > an exam that gives guys like bchadwick doubts > about his obvious mastery of the material is no > fair exam. its a crapshoot, is what it is. i don’t > recall paying $1000 and 6 months of my family & > social life for a friggin 3-hour crapshoot. If you are memorising an 8 page formula sheet, you really don’t get it. You made it a memory test. All the calcs related to futures, options, swaps, bonds, etc. - none of those need to be committed to memory if you’re understanding is up to scratch. The thought of you spending the time made me smile.
i guess the ‘fair’ point here is that it was the same test for everyone, unless the one that showed up in asia was of the ‘usual’ length that appeared in the last three years. insofar as memorization goes, i guess anyone embarking on this program has to be prepared for it as you have to do it at all levels. memorize several formulas, and then forget them after the exam! i attempted ‘almost’ the entire exam in AM so feel better compared to several ppl who feel really bad about AM. i do however think a bit of balance b/w AM and PM could have brought out the true preparation of candidates in a better way. why was the PM doable about twice in 3 hours, and people missing AM questions just because of time?
AM was the hardest CFA exam IMO out of all 3 levels and PM was the easiest…even easier than L1. I expect a 30-40 point spread between my scores. reverse cash and carry was explained in one sentence in CFAI’s 2,500+/- pages of text yet = about 5% of the exam. I think rohufish made some good points above.
Etienne Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > If you are memorising an 8 page formula sheet, you > really don’t get it. You made it a memory test. > All the calcs related to futures, options, swaps, > bonds, etc. - none of those need to be committed > to memory if you’re understanding is up to > scratch. The thought of you spending the time > made me smile. etienne, you staying awake till 2am the night before the exam, and getting up at 5am to “go over the whole curriculum once over” as i think you put it, didn’t exactly bring tears to my eyes either. i’d love to see your resume, and see what it is that you always seem to assume you have that others don’t have. the only thing obvious to me so far is deep rooted insecurity. sigh…i hope i don’t read about you in the papers when the next financial crisis breaks…
there are some of us who suggest that whoever complaint about the time contraint is somehow inferior in the understanding of the material. Suppose we brought in a university professor in finance, gave the person the CFAI notes, ask the person to study it for 15 weeks and focus on LOS, and then tested the person using the LIII exam. What do you think this person would do? Could this person be able to handle the CPPI calculation? let’s review the LOS related to CPPI LOS 42.h explain the performance consequences, in up, down, and nontrending markets, of (1) rebalancing to a constant mix of equities and bills, (2) buying and holding equities, and (3) constant-proportion portfolio insurnace (CPPI). LOS 42.I distinguish among linear, concave, and convex rebalanccing strategies Now tell me, do these LOSs require making the actual calculation for the CPPI method? the LOS only states “explain the consequenses”. the CFAI command word “explain” require “To give the meaning or significance of; to provide an understanding of; to give the reason for or cause of”. I don’t think the LOS requires us the do the acutal calculation using the CPPI method. I follow the LOSs closely and I did not try to practice the calculation of CPPI. When I was short on time in AM, I forgo this question because I am not familiar with it. But if it asked me the consequences of the various methods in different market conditions, you bet that I can answer them right away. I am not complaining here. For the purpose of passing the exam, we need to do whatever it takes, including the assumption that the exam will always have unexpected items. Before going into the exam, I had assumed that AM will be tough, so I need to make it up in the PM. I think I made enough preparation to do just that. My point is: those guys who complain do have a reasonable basis. If we want to discuss this, let’s focus on facts and try to avoid “overconfidence”, “confirming”, biases.
Every designation, at some point, becomes an “also ran” or “commoditized” because everyone and their brother are taking the darn exam. Alas, this is the problem faced by CFAI and what it has done to itself. I think that they now have no choice but to make this test simply incomprehensible to ensure that it is projecting the image of “difficult” program. I think CFAI was, for a long time, concerned with the curriculum itself - meaning that making sure everyone is studying the latest topics in finance and covering what is necessary to make sure that everyone with a CFA designation is really worthy of a CFA designation. In fact, my co-worker took the exam in 1980 and told me that “studying” was the most important message CFAI (or it’s former name) was trying to deliver. Recently, however, my speculation is that the focus is now shifted to testing. I think, they figured out that there are enough smart people taking the test including those high IQ guys from foreign countries getting close to 100%. However, IMHO, the test itself didn’t keep up with the rise in the quality of candidates skills and qualifications. People like me who has taught classes at top universities(albeit as a TA) and devised exams before understand that devising “fair” but “comprehensive” exam is a real tough thing. I guess my overall message to CFAI is to get with it quickly and to devise good tests. It doesn’t matter if we have low passing rates so long as people who studied the curriculum passes. (In fairness, however, CFAI is going to all multiple choice even on level III pretty soon and are trying to make this a better experience overall - judging by what I hear) They just are not doing this soon enough…