But those are very basic quesions… Would you want someone who didn’t understand very basic arbitrage concepts managing a portfolio? Furthermore, when teaching PM involves concepts like the Black-Litterman approach and deriving an efficient frontier, don’t you think you should be able to grasp Cash and Carry?
ahahah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Dsylexic Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > if it is not a memorization test, you are > kidding > > yourself. if you want real conceptual tests, > take > > the maths olympiad exam or something. > > > I’m pretty confident that I passed this thing, > finished all AM questions with time to spare, and > I can officially say that for all three levels I > never looked at a single flashcard or memorized a > single formula. If you give yourself credit and > trust yourself, the calculations they’re looking > for just aren’t that in-depth. I feel like people > choose to memorize formulas instead of > conceptually understanding the desired result, and > figuring out a decent approach to arriving at said > conclusion… For what it is worth, I could not agree more and, likewise, the number of formulas I memorised for the 3 levels could be written on one half of A4 paper. The things you need to remember are few and far between. E.g. the fact that you base things off 360 days to calculate an option payoff (not 365). There is some committing to memory, though, like the 8 or 9 data flaws (SS6, if you want to get the exact terminology). That being said, CFAI - to their credit - are good at not testing such things in the form “what are the 8 or 9 problems with…” The list memorising is something you can get involved in inadvertently if you treat Schweser like the real thing.
ahahah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > But those are very basic quesions… Would you > want someone who didn’t understand very basic > arbitrage concepts managing a portfolio? > Furthermore, when teaching PM involves concepts > like the Black-Litterman approach and deriving an > efficient frontier, don’t you think you should be > able to grasp Cash and Carry? do you actually run stock or bond portfolios? it not that complicated. the majority of investors do not need their money invested in cash and carry arbitrage. while a understanding of options i’d say is very important.
oskigo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ahahah Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > But those are very basic quesions… Would you > > want someone who didn’t understand very basic > > arbitrage concepts managing a portfolio? > > Furthermore, when teaching PM involves concepts > > like the Black-Litterman approach and deriving > an > > efficient frontier, don’t you think you should > be > > able to grasp Cash and Carry? > > > do you actually run stock or bond portfolios? it > not that complicated. the majority of investors > do not need their money invested in cash and carry > arbitrage. while a understanding of options i’d > say is very important. the point I’m making is based on general intelligence, not specific knowledge. And while I realize most investors don’t need this, I’d hope that when investing in a mutual fund, HF, etc, the manager can understand the gist of it. How many prominent investors/money managers do you think would struggle with this? Would Stevie Cohen? Jim Simons? Warren Buffet? JDV? Even Steve Schwarzman?
i’d say the majority of cfa people who got the cash and carry question wrong didn’t get it wrong because of lack of intelligence, but merle because they didn’t study that material (not thinking it important for the test).
Etienne Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > For what it is worth, I could not agree more and, > likewise, the number of formulas I memorised for > the 3 levels could be written on one half of A4 > paper. The things you need to remember are few > and far between. E.g. the fact that you base > things off 360 days to calculate an option payoff > (not 365). There is some committing to memory, > though, like the 8 or 9 data flaws (SS6, if you > want to get the exact terminology). That being > said, CFAI - to their credit - are good at not > testing such things in the form “what are the 8 or > 9 problems with…” The list memorising is > something you can get involved in inadvertently if > you treat Schweser like the real thing. wow, half a page. all three levels?! impressive, etienne. good for you, kiddo. good for you.
oskigo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > i’d say the majority of cfa people who got the > cash and carry question wrong didn’t get it wrong > because of lack of intelligence, but merle because > they didn’t study that material (not thinking it > important for the test). which is the point Etienne and I were getting at. too many people tried to answer it from pure recall instead of slowing down, taking a deep breath, thinking about the mechanics of a futures contract and arbitrage, looking at all of the data presented in all three parts of the question, and then answering accordingly. Also, for what it’s worth, the CFAI sent out a revised LOS for cash and carry, which is kind of a red flag that they were going to test it…
I sense quite some arrogance with some of the replies here. Good for them as it must be great to feel so good about yourself but you could spare me the self-masturbation and keep it to yourself. It’s supposed to be a private thing.
ahahah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > How many > prominent investors/money managers do you think > would struggle with this? Would Stevie Cohen? Jim > Simons? Warren Buffet? JDV? Even Steve > Schwarzman? ahem…all due to respect to joey and everything…but the ‘young kid in awe of joey’ routine is going a bit too far here. joey commutes on a motorbike to work for geez sake. he’s a good guy, human with his moods and irritable habits, i am sure, but i wouldn’t wish this kind of pressure on the poor dude. i am sure in his 30+ year career (from what i can tell), he would have a few bucks (heck maybe a lotta bucks even) in the bank. but those names you have up there before/after JDV, those are heavies - real, honest to goodness heavies. show them some respect mate. and cut our bud joey some slack. he’s probably feeling a bit inadequate squeezed in the middle up there.
Bleeck Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I sense quite some arrogance with some of the > replies here. Good for them as it must be great to > feel so good about yourself but you could spare me > the self-masturbation and keep it to yourself. > > It’s supposed to be a private thing. I will when you keep your self-mutilation in the bathroom…
i think it will be great when some of the people talking smack on this thread fail. see “over confidence” in SS 3.
Bleeck Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I sense quite some arrogance with some of the > replies here. Good for them as it must be great to > feel so good about yourself but you could spare me > the self-masturbation and keep it to yourself. > > It’s supposed to be a private thing. ‘some’ arrogance? my nose is stuffed right now, or i’d faint from being overwhelmed by the smell.
asdffdsa Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > i think it will be great when some of the people > talking smack on this thread fail. see “over > confidence” in SS 3. So everyone who disagrees with you is overconfident?
As a fund of funds analyst with a lot of friends and contacts in the FOF industry, I can safely say that not once in the tens of thousands of times we have collectively interviewed hedge fund managers have we ever asked them to solve a cash and carry arbitrage question. It is completely irrelevant to the skill set we expect our managers to have unless we are looking for a cash and carry arbitrage manager, which I can also safely say is not on the top of anyone’s priority list at the moment.
Where is the arrogance? Nobody has stated that they will pass for sure, and nobody has said that anyone else is dumb or whatever. There is just a difference in study strategy here. Some people studied the material, and some people studied for the test. The latter guessed wrong - it happens. I honestly don’t understand what the uproar is about anyway, there were maybe 20 marks tops of “obscure” stuff and the rest were big topics. The IPS in itself was like 1/4 of the AM session; complaining that you only guessed 90% of the content instead of 100% is pretty crazy. (for the record I missed reverse cash and carry too)
well, there is disagreement, which leaves open the possibility of two alternate realities. and mutual respect. then there is arrogance and overconfidence, which implies only one assumed reality. and lack of respect. come to think of it, very hard to tell whats going on in people’s minds. none of us are mind readers after all.
rohufish Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ahahah Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > How many > > prominent investors/money managers do you think > > would struggle with this? Would Stevie Cohen? > Jim > > Simons? Warren Buffet? JDV? Even Steve > > Schwarzman? > > ahem…all due to respect to joey and > everything…but the ‘young kid in awe of joey’ > routine is going a bit too far here. joey commutes > on a motorbike to work for geez sake. he’s a good > guy, human with his moods and irritable habits, i > am sure, but i wouldn’t wish this kind of pressure > on the poor dude. i am sure in his 30+ year career > (from what i can tell), he would have a few bucks > (heck maybe a lotta bucks even) in the bank. but > those names you have up there before/after JDV, > those are heavies - real, honest to goodness > heavies. show them some respect mate. and cut our > bud joey some slack. he’s probably feeling a bit > inadequate squeezed in the middle up there. I know, just figured we’d get a kick out of it… “As a fund of funds analyst with a lot of friends and contacts in the FOF industry, I can safely say that not once in the tens of thousands of times we have collectively interviewed hedge fund managers have we ever asked them to solve a cash and carry arbitrage question. It is completely irrelevant to the skill set we expect our managers to have unless we are looking for a cash and carry arbitrage manager, which I can also safely say is not on the top of anyone’s priority list at the moment.” sure, but if you did ask them, what would you think if they got it wrong?
ahahah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Would Stevie Cohen? Jim > Simons? Warren Buffet? JDV? Even Steve > Schwarzman? I’ll bet each one of those guys gets better seats at restaurants than I do.
ahahah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > which is the point Etienne and I were getting at. > too many people tried to answer it from pure > recall instead of slowing down, taking a deep > breath, thinking about the mechanics of a futures > contract and arbitrage, looking at all of the data > presented in all three parts of the question, and > then answering accordingly. > > Also, for what it’s worth, the CFAI sent out a > revised LOS for cash and carry, which is kind of a > red flag that they were going to test it… true and that is how i got my answer for the part that actually had to be calculated, but i bet anything I didn’t get anywhere near full credit for the qualitative part. it should be noted that i have not been one of those complaining about the exam, I just don’t agree that everything on the exam (or even the majority of th LOS) is somehow required knowledge to be a qualified and quality portfolio manager…
this is the oldest “professional student” move in the book. complain about the difficulty of the test and hope that complaining can influence the curve. it was a long test, but as someone noted, THEY TOLD US HOW LONG TO SPEND ON EACH QUESTION!. I’m sure your resumes are much more impressive than mine, and that your test scores blow mine out of the water, but when someone tells me i only have 3 minutes to do something, i know what that means. i may have failed, but if this test was easy, it wouldn’t be worth that much to anyone anyway.