Disgusting

[igor555]

instead of hating on freedom yall should be thanking your god that america has allowed you to make something of yourself

[Ghibli]

@igor555

instead of hating on freedom yall should be thanking your god that america has allowed you to make something of yourself

And to add, once again, they should listen to Bono…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8rL4GVhDAE

[Griingo]

@Ghibli

While Europeans did claim what is now America, it was not hard to do. The native Indians were nomadic and not an homogeneous group. Different tribes were fighting each other for control of the land. The idea that since the Europeans were late to the party(fight), they had less of some righteous claim is beyond comical. Where does this crap get started? Genocide in America? Is there really a belief that there was a systemic extermination of the natives? Disease took care of that. Why don’t you clowns stick to your concern for innocent modern day civilians? Maybe talk about the hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths in Syria and Sudan. Or maybe the more than six thousand murders in Iraq in the last couple of months. Or maybe talk about some of the countries that have disenfranchised the rights of half their people.

And by the way, slavery was not based on race or an American phenomenon. America had black slave owners from the very beginning. It was based on ownership. Ships sailed over to Africa and purchased people from the native Africans. Being black never made you a slave in America. Free black men roamed America from the very beginning. Every region on Earth has a history of slavery. America has done a pretty good job eradicating the atrocity. Americans with a slave heritage are definitely better off because of the sacrifice of their relatives. Certainly ironic. Most of the ancestors of those that did the selling in Africa, those that weren’t sold that is, wish they were born in America. Who would have thought?..America is moving beyond its atrocities. A big chunk of the World has decided not to move beyond theirs, or maybe they have not spilled enough blood to move on…America’s drive for freedom for all was fairly bloody most would argue…Go research a few American Civil War battles…and do take note of the history of our political parties, if you want to see some more irony…

And please, save the American Civil War was about economics diatribe. I agree. Definitely a huge factor.

The American educational system has a lot to answer for…

[I_am_the_Highway]

I am still not sure if this thread has an anti-semitic undertone or if some people have legitimate concers about IDF behavior. But given that blatant anti-semitism is en vogue again in Western countries the former would not surprise me.

[Palantir]

@igor555

instead of hating on freedom yall should be thanking your god that america has allowed you to make something of yourself

isildurr isn’t from America. As for me,my parents came here because they were skilled workers in demand, as America benefited from us, America can thank us too. Anyways, given how the Indian economy turned out, we would have likely done better staying there, but that was not apparent in the 90s.

[system]

And I don’t hate freedom. Who in their right state of mind would hate one of the most noble concepts known to man?

I do find the paranoid and hysterical version displayed by _ some _ Americans as more than slightly amusing.

[youreskimofriend]

I didn’t go through all 180+ posts here so forgive me if this was already posted. If not please have a look, I think this analysis is very interesting and in my opinion very much to the point

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/why-dont-i-criticize-israel

[Ghibli]

@gringo\_bob

@Ghibli

While Europeans did claim what is now America, it was not hard to do. The native Indians were nomadic and not an homogeneous group. Different tribes were fighting each other for control of the land. The idea that since the Europeans were late to the party(fight), they had less of some righteous claim is beyond comical. Where does this crap get started? Genocide in America? Is there really a belief that there was a systemic extermination of the natives? Disease took care of that. Why don’t you clowns stick to your concern for innocent modern day civilians? Maybe talk about the hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths in Syria and Sudan. Or maybe the more than six thousand murders in Iraq in the last couple of months. Or maybe talk about some of the countries that have disenfranchised the rights of half their people.

And by the way, slavery was not based on race or an American phenomenon. America had black slave owners from the very beginning. It was based on ownership. Ships sailed over to Africa and purchased people from the native Africans. Being black never made you a slave in America. Free black men roamed America from the very beginning. Every region on Earth has a history of slavery. America has done a pretty good job eradicating the atrocity. Americans with a slave heritage are definitely better off because of the sacrifice of their relatives. Certainly ironic. Most of the ancestors of those that did the selling in Africa, those that weren’t sold that is, wish they were born in America. Who would have thought?..America is moving beyond its atrocities. A big chunk of the World has decided not to move beyond theirs, or maybe they have not spilled enough blood to move on…America’s drive for freedom for all was fairly bloody most would argue…Go research a few American Civil War battles…and do take note of the history of our political parties, if you want to see some more irony…

And please, save the American Civil War was about economics diatribe. I agree. Definitely a huge factor.

The American educational system has a lot to answer for…

“The” American educational system. Yeah, quite the homogeneous entity. Weston high school in Connecticut has a 100% college marticulation rate. Compton High in California must be similar, given it’s a public school as well. And America is so densely populated. The subway was packed.

[Ghibli]

@youreskimofriend

I didn’t go through all 180+ posts here so forgive me if this was already posted. If not please have a look, I think this analysis is very interesting and in my opinion very much to the point

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/why-dont-i-criticize-israel

Some of the points have been mentioned, but a great article. Thanks for the link. He speaks the truth. Don’t know how anyone that is ok living in a pluralistic peaceful world could disagree. Clearly, that must not be the goal. So the fight continues…the patience of the giants will eventually wane. And then there will be death of a scale the world has never seen…

[youreskimofriend]

^ knowledge bomb

[Ghibli]

@Grexit

@gringo\_bob

@Ghibli

While Europeans did claim what is now America, it was not hard to do. The native Indians were nomadic and not an homogeneous group. Different tribes were fighting each other for control of the land. The idea that since the Europeans were late to the party(fight), they had less of some righteous claim is beyond comical. Where does this crap get started? Genocide in America? Is there really a belief that there was a systemic extermination of the natives? Disease took care of that. Why don’t you clowns stick to your concern for innocent modern day civilians? Maybe talk about the hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths in Syria and Sudan. Or maybe the more than six thousand murders in Iraq in the last couple of months. Or maybe talk about some of the countries that have disenfranchised the rights of half their people.

And by the way, slavery was not based on race or an American phenomenon. America had black slave owners from the very beginning. It was based on ownership. Ships sailed over to Africa and purchased people from the native Africans. Being black never made you a slave in America. Free black men roamed America from the very beginning. Every region on Earth has a history of slavery. America has done a pretty good job eradicating the atrocity. Americans with a slave heritage are definitely better off because of the sacrifice of their relatives. Certainly ironic. Most of the ancestors of those that did the selling in Africa, those that weren’t sold that is, wish they were born in America. Who would have thought?..America is moving beyond its atrocities. A big chunk of the World has decided not to move beyond theirs, or maybe they have not spilled enough blood to move on…America’s drive for freedom for all was fairly bloody most would argue…Go research a few American Civil War battles…and do take note of the history of our political parties, if you want to see some more irony…

And please, save the American Civil War was about economics diatribe. I agree. Definitely a huge factor.

The American educational system has a lot to answer for…

Long time lurker here and this will be my first and last post because this just annoyed the hell out me. It is difficult to understand the point you are trying to make beyond your meaningless ramblings that start at no particular point and end with a 1 min Bono clip. At the end of it the only concise argument you managed to make was that we should all mind our own business and not talk about anything beyond our borders while quoting a post about freedom. I see the irony is lost on someone like you.

At the end of your first paragraph you managed to pose 4 questions. The first being the ‘clowns’ in this thread are expressing their concern for modern day civilians ignoring the fact that the Arabs are civilians. Seeing as in the time I have visited this place I have read a thread on topics ranging from the Arab revolution to no fap, I would like to say your needless defensiveness because you are not mature enough to handle a bit of criticism of Israel and USA and your constant derailment of this thread is not welcome.

The third paragraph where you bravely attempted to make another point failed on every level possible. I am a white person and certainly no apologist but your attempt to rewrite what actually happened is insulting beyond belief. Slavery affected one particular race much more than it affected others. While you paint an absolutely inaccurate picture of blacks being a victim of ownership rather than the color of their skin you behave like a teenager who has just discovered instagram when you ignore the extrajudicial justice carried out by white mobs such as lynching and firebombing. You ignore legal segrergation that existed till as early as the 1960’s based on skin color.

Finally your absolutely pathetic point where you attempt to say that the ancestors of people who were raped and beaten would like to replace them is so detached from reality that you prove every negative stereotype that is present out there about Americans. If you were referring to the present generation of people in the developing world who are not concerned with the sins of the past then if you can get past your mindless American jingoism I think you will find they are not particularly enchanted with the idea of America as they are with opportunity, something that is now present everywhere including their home countries as the world continues to become flat.

Irony…maybe the poster writing from Germany…Revisionist history? Genocide? Post slavery the scale is certainly a little different. Sanctioned discrimination and occasional barbaric acts by small misguided groups, horrific and fear inducing no less, compared to atrocities most can’t even imagine. Might want to work on your framing and maybe establish a little ethos. Oppurtunity everywhere? My neighbors during my time in Nigeria certainly would not agree. But thank you for letting me live rent free in your head. Unfortunately, i don’t find much to be going on. Worth about as much as i paid to be there.

[igor555]

http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21610264-all-its-military-might-israel-faces-grim-future-unless-it-can-secure-peace-winning

[Swaption11]

Please stop using the term antisemitic to describe criticism of IDF. Palestinians are semites too. Isrl is the only country in the world that somehow can use racism as a critique of its conservative political decisions. Its incredibly ignorant however all to common.

[Griingo]

^ man, that’s racist, you’re so antisemantic…

[Swaption11]

I had a boss who used to say “no im just pro arab”. Its basically the same thing as calling people anti american when Bush pushed to invade Iraq and other countries protested against us. Given that so many americans actually were against the war as well, foreign countries didnt hate us as americans but hated the decisions of our political leaders.

[geo]

@Swaption11

Please stop using the term antisemitic to describe criticism of IDF. Palestinians are semites too. Isrl is the only country in the world that somehow can use racism as a critique of its conservative political decisions. Its incredibly ignorant however all to common.

This is largely fair. Which is why this nonsense about genocide is absolute rubbish. IDF can go after Hamas and I can criticise Hamas until the cows come home and its not racist.

[Swaption11]

Both sides have their hands dirty. I believe it is fair to criticize anyone who advocates genocide, which individuals on both sides have done openly. Im sure everyone has seen the IG of the IDF sniper bragging about his kills. I wont paint an entire population by the acts some of its members. We also could use the extra 3bn a year here in our country as well.

[system]

@Swaption11

Both sides have their hands dirty. I believe it is fair to criticize anyone who advocates genocide, which individuals on both sides have done openly. Im sure everyone has seen the IG of the IDF sniper bragging about his kills.

Forget the IDF, when the leaders of the nation who supposedly want peace are coming out with genocdal phrases you know nothing’s going to change if we let the status quo remain.

Anyway I just thought I’d leave this here from the oxfam report. These are not the actions of a nation that wants peace

_ Israel has rapidly expanded settlements across the West Bank,including East Jerusalem: The number of Israeli settlers has more than doubled. _ _ Israeli settlements are considered illegal under international law The Gaza fishing industry has been decimated. Under Oslo, a 20 Nautical Mile (NM) fishing zone was agreed; today, fishermen are not allowed to go further than a maximum of six NM off the coast of Gaza and are frequently subject to live fire by the Israeli Navy that patrols the fishing limit. Separated Palestinian families require approval by the GoI to be together _ Among many more http://www.oxfam.org/sites/www.oxfam.org/files/oxfam-oslo-20-factsheet.pdf

[igor555]

http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21610264-all-its-military-might-israel-faces-grim-future-unless-it-can-secure-peace-winning