For the first time Comp Sci you actually wrote something that made a modicum of sense.
I agree with the gist of your post but if you want Israel to treat Palestine as an independent country that has declared an act of war on it, then Palestine needs to be exactly that.
A country that has the right to secure it’s borders, that recieves it’s legal share of water supply and the right to develop her own army free of economic sanctions If after that they launch a rocket then let Israel nuke the fk out of them.
You don’t seem to despise their actions. Just above you justified their recent bombing of Israel by claiming that Israel had engaged in “acts of war” by “encroaching” into Palestinian territory. Can you reference a post you made following Hamas’ bombings kidnappings prior to Israel’s response? I would like to compare the relative outrage.
Several months after, or a year after, rockets/terrorist attack will rock Israel, with high casualties. Gaza authorities will claim it was done by rouge terrorist organization and it carry no responsibility. And it will happen again and again. The second Israel will start military action against Gaza, it will be called invasion and an agression on friendly country.
So in reality it will be back to square one. GIven that, Israel feels more secure right now, then it would if it would open borders.
That was a really good article. This was posted in WSJ today. Ignoring Stephens’ commentary pertaining to Israel/Palestine specifically, no matter which group/country it is, the loss of life that is expelled on a weekly basis across MENA is awful and will likely not change anytime soon.
Excellent points, this is far more thought provoking than the half assed rubbish in this thread.
You could be right of course and maybe you will be but keep in mind this is speculation and as I have mentioned numerous times in this thread but i’ll say it once more for you. The scent of money, the opportunity to build a better world for their children is a very very powerful motivator for people to forget about past grievances and look to the future especially when they are coming of the back of an age long conflict that was previously going nowhere.
You tread dangerous ground when you go down that path, it’s the same logic colonial empires used to justify keeping hold of their colonies, it’s the logic that the dutch used when they went back to take Indonesia and were defeated and many more. Think about it, no former colonies give a shit about their former colonialists anymore despite the fact that during the freedom struggles they took the fight to other shores and were proclaiming death to the enemy. They just get on fixing their own problems and what happened or did not happen in the past no longer figures in their thinking. An inclusive South Africa while having numerous problems including white flight is a far better country than when the whites refused to give the blacks equal rights because of fear of reprisals.
This is an interesting topic that will get lost in this clusterfuck of a thread where people are insisting on putting labels like anti semitic or some such rubbish so i’ve PM’ed some stuff to you. It’s very interesting if you take a look at it.
I hope that at the end of it even if we disagree on what might happen in the future we can agree they have the right to chart their own destiny as free people.
Where’s your documented criticism of Hamas’ bombing of Israel prior to Israel’s counterattack. I’m assuming from your silence that you didn’t have any criticism. And thus, your points are the rubbish to which you’re referring.
The fact that i have called them scum, a terrorist organization etc etc. I do not condone their actions in any way, i am simply trying to give solutions and pointing out that israel should have been pulled up for some of the shit they have done too. Seeing as you are too much of a dipshit to do your own reading i’d rather discuss things more constructively with people who aren’t paranoid about your position and who can hopefully understand that while in some cases an eye for an eye is justified, it is taking us nowhere here.
You spent a considerable and annoying amount of time criticizing Israel for bombing Hamas strongholds. Naturally you would *now* say that you condemn Hamas for bombing Israel several weeks ago because to do otherwise would be openly hypocritical and would undermine your argument. My question is whether you criticized Hamas *before* Israel returned fire. My guess is that you did not because you are, in fact, not motivated by right and wrong or aversion to war, but rather you’re just against Israel because it’s a Jewish nation. I doubt that you were posting pictures of blown up Israeli people. Probably because you don’t care.
Isildurr, no offense intended here. But you’re starting to sound like an ignorant, more potty-mouthed version of Blake, but with less help in the tech area.
Greenman, I’m curious to know your answer on whether putting a missile in your daughter’s kindergarten makes her an “enemy combatant” as you boldly declare.
Im saying i despise hamas. I have a particular loathing towards extremists because half my family had to flee their home because extremist muslims decided to chase them away due to them being from a different religion.
Im also saying Israel have done things that are ridiculous and i find it hypocritical the continued ignoring of Israel slaughtering innocent refugees and their settlements and what not and no I did not post pictures of blown up jews because I did not post pics of blown up Arabs either. That was finkid? I think, you might want to spend a few more minutes reading.
If you want to have a constructive argument on how to bring both sides to the table and how to ensure the palesteniens get their freedom then im all game else you are just wasting everyones time.
And gman no offense buddy but you are out of your league here when you post idiotic one liners saying you’d shoot a civilian to get to the enemy ignoring all the various factors at play.
And this is the precise reason that I took the interesting stuff away from this thread where we can actually have a convo without getting called anti jewish by some paranoid idiots intent on your position first and foremost.
You very clearly said, “What you call human shields, I call enemy combatants”. Knowing that Hamas stores weapons in schools and hospitals, according to you, that makes hospital patients and schoolkids enemy combatants, despite them not being old enough to decide.
So again, if Hamas stores weapons in your daughter’s school, you’d be okay with Israel dropping a few bombs on there? Human shields are enemy combatants right?
This is pretty stupid. First I’d probably ask myself why my daughter is going to school in Gaza? Or, if she’s still attending school here in the Midwest, how is Hamas able to get weapons this deep into the U.S.? Then I’d have to figure out if Israel is even capable of hitting a target in middle America. I doubt they are. So, I guess I wouldn’t be too concerned about it.
Now, if you’re asking, hypothetically, if I was a Palestinian dad and found out weapons were being stored in my daughter’s school? The first thing I’d do is be sure she didn’t go back there. Of course, that’s assuming I’m not a Hamas backer. If I am, then I let her go and hope that she either remains safe or becomes a martyr for our movement.
I think many parents are reasonable and want the best for their kids so they have done their best to move them to safety. The rest of them are making life and death decisions for their kids based on their misguided beliefs. In that case, I guess you reap what you sow.
Fair enough that it’s the parent’s reponsibility, but I don’t think Hamas typically notifies parents that there are rockets stored in the local school.
I think you underestimate the cooperation Hamas is receiving from the locals. By all accounts there is significant local support, so even if most of the parents didn’t have a hand in or didn’t know anything about weapons moving into a school, I highly doubt it remains a secret for long.
Dad dropping off daughter at school: “Wow, look at all those soldiers. Are you guys having some sort of special career day today?”
Daughter: “No, they just showed up over the weekend. They say they’re here to keep us safe and to remind us to never, ever go into the gym anymore.”
Dad: “Oh, that makes complete sense. Have a good day!”
See now, here’s the deal, you’re not really giving Israel enough credit. Israel is being very clever. What you suggest - Palestinians being given the chance to form a modern, secular state is Israel’s fear. If that were to happen, that would entrench Palestinians, strengthen them, and give them a base for future expansions into Israel, eliminating Israel’s control.
Hamas, as we know, is a hardcore Islamist group with every intention of eliminating the Jews, but with little ability to actually do so - in other words, the ideal enemy. So, by ensuring that Hamas stays in power, Israel now has every legitimate excuse to keep pounding them over and over again with little threat of repercussion from the United States. Obviously, the Palestinians are only going to be enraged by this, ensuring more support for the most radical, violent groups, which keeps Hamas entrenched there. This has similarities with what Assad was doing earlier, when he liquidated moderate opposition and allowed the Islamist insurgents to run riot.
If Hamas was smart, they’d pretty much draw down violence, and recognize the Israeli state, but then again, perhaps they are happy with the status quo too.