Hi everyone, just wanted to start this thread to hear everyone’s thoughts on entry-level positions in ER in this current economic climate. I’ve already received some great advice on ER from a couple posters (buddha and numi), but still wanted to make this thread to hear more opinions on the industry, the current hiring climate, and how you believe it relates to my situation. A little background and relevant points about myself – I’m a senior at the Univ of Michigan, majoring in Economics. Cumulative GPA of 3.3, have taken several courses from the business school (basic accounting and finance courses), and also signed up for L1 in December (though at this point, it’s not looking good!). I am a member of a couple finance/business/econ clubs, but do not hold any meaningful leadership positions. Finally, I do not have relevant working experience (no internship), but have followed the markets for many years so I’m not completely oblivious when it comes to the markets. I’d really like to hear from those of you currently working in the industry or anyone else that has knowledge of ER. I’ve been trying to look up the hiring process for ER, but there isn’t as much information about it as there is investment banking. I know ibanking has recruiting starting up soon for graduating seniors, and many of these ibanks have research divisions. I’m not sure if a big firm is really where I want to work, and may prefer a smaller firm, preferably on the buy side, though I may not qualified. How does the process compare to investment banking (which from what I’ve read is rather brutal and lengthy)? Should I be calling up firms right now, expressing my interest, and hoping they have entry-level positions? Do you believe this is a good field for me to break into as far as entry-level out of undergrad without experience, or is this an industry that’s downsizing/on the downside? It seems as though there are many ibanking analyst roles that can be found on the internet, but not as many entry-level ER positions (i.e. research associate), though if there is less demand for those positions, then it might not be too bad. I recently found the alumni database for UMich, and will be emailing anyone that lists they are connected/working in the ER field, asking similar questions about “day in the life”, job outlook, and other basic questions, hoping that it will eventually lead to maybe a connection to an interview. I also have been reading the Vault Guide to Finance interviews, but it doesn’t specifically tell you which questions would be more relevant to a ER position (seems like the guide was more geared towards ibanking). I read up on valuation methods, the “stock picking” section, and some of the “personality” questions. Of course the concern at this point isn’t the interview, but still believe it’d be good to prepare. I’d most certainly appreciate any and all advice you can provide. Thank you very much!
Unlike banking, equity research associates don’t necessarily go for two years, they can usually stay as long as they want, therefore the number of entry level hires is no where near the amount of entry level bankers needed (also there are more bankers in absolute numbers typically). Send your resume to every research analyst you can find an email for, maybe someone has just had their associate quit. I don’t understand why you don’t have work experience, your chances are slim to none given the economic environment. There are thousands of laid off bankers/research associates who would take a research job in a second so not only are you competing against undergrads you are competing against other laid off people with experience. Good luck
bsider Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Unlike banking, equity research associates don’t > necessarily go for two years, they can usually > stay as long as they want, therefore the number of > entry level hires is no where near the amount of > entry level bankers needed (also there are more > bankers in absolute numbers typically). Send your > resume to every research analyst you can find an > email for, maybe someone has just had their > associate quit. I don’t understand why you don’t > have work experience, your chances are slim to > none given the economic environment. There are > thousands of laid off bankers/research associates > who would take a research job in a second so not > only are you competing against undergrads you are > competing against other laid off people with > experience. Good luck That makes sense bsider, thanks. As far as work experience, while I’ve had a couple “jobs” and an “internship”, I use those terms loosely because they aren’t directly relevant. I put them down on my resume and tried to at least make it seem like I learned something (primarily people skills since they were essentially sales and retail jobs). I tried to get an internship this past summer, but failed miserably. I wasn’t really sure what I wanted to do and consequently wasn’t properly prepared. Along with a lackluster resume and without a clear focus on what I wanted to do, I ended up just emailing various ibanks hoping for an ibanking internship. I’m certain that my resume or email was lost in the pile, especially since my timing for applying was late (started looking in January). Obviously I didn’t end up getting anything. Again, I fully realize that was my fault, and that’s why I’m trying to be more active this year and get more productive advice (hence my thread on AF!). As far as emailing any analyst I can find, any methods to finding their email? Many firms I looked up last year would only have a typical info/hr@somecompany.com as opposed to an actual contact (I don’t think I ever received a response emailing the former). If it’s really as hard as you say (and I believe you, it’s just unfortunate to hear), do you think those headhunter/recruiting agencies would increase my odds? I’m just trying to figure out the best way to go about this because I don’t want to mess up like I did last year.
it will be tough, face it. only way you will get in is with a connect from UM. good news is that ross is all over the street, so get to work. if i were you, i would craft my story and bang out 2-3 sample reports and models.
Thanks Daj. If possible, I’d like to discuss your advice further, would you mind emailing me at kp0824 at gmail dot com ? I have never made a specific “research report” and would appreciate any tips, insight, format, or examples on how to make a sample? Same thing for a model (though, this would likely be tougher since I don’t have modeling skills because I didn’t do an internship).
kp824, The job environment is brutal at present but if you are determined I am sure that someone will give you a break; if it is any encouragement I was able to break into Reseach from a retail broker background (English lit major). From my expereince the following is key: 1) Present yourself extreamly well, have a narative and be very upfrount about who you are etc remeber you are selling yourself not proving you can be an analyst. 2) pick a couple of sectors you are interested in and write up a couple of reports complete with excel models. this will be time consuming but proves comitiment. 3) Call these guys directly esp at boutique firms where HR is less formal. Generally the analyst will respect the hustle Also never forget the sell in sell-side:)
kp824 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks Daj. > > If possible, I’d like to discuss your advice > further, would you mind emailing me at kp0824 at > gmail dot com ? > > I have never made a specific “research report” and > would appreciate any tips, insight, format, or > examples on how to make a sample? Same thing for a > model (though, this would likely be tougher since > I don’t have modeling skills because I didn’t do > an internship). Dearest Daj, If you were kind enough to forward the information you sent to KP id greatly appreciate it. KP, if you dont mind, once you get the info could you forward it to me @ crs32@drexel.edu Thanks in advance guys/gals
"I’d really like to hear from those of you currently working in the industry or anyone else that has knowledge of ER. " KP84, Why don’t you you just job shadow? Are you in Toronto? I am certain that I could arrange for you to sit in with some of my sub-advisors? It would be a great way to make contacts, as well as, to see whether ER is for you. Willy
kp824 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks Daj. > > > I have never made a specific “research report” and > would appreciate any tips, insight, format, or > examples on how to make a sample? Same thing for a > model (though, this would likely be tougher since > I don’t have modeling skills because I didn’t do > an internship). dude, i would love to help you, but i am in the middle of job interviews and CAIA exam study myself. what you need to know i cannot explain in an email. if i were you, I would try to look at a sell side report from your schools library. modeling isnt taught like this, over an email again, UM has a good librar, use the librarians there, they are getting paid to help you and most days probly surf the net. if i were you, also, I’d buy a program from wall street prep – google it
<> hilarious. this is my background too
WillyR Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > "I’d really like to hear from those of you > currently working in the industry or anyone else > that has knowledge of ER. " > > KP84, > > Why don’t you you just job shadow? Are you in > Toronto? I am certain that I could arrange for you > to sit in with some of my sub-advisors? It would > be a great way to make contacts, as well as, to > see whether ER is for you. > > Willy That sounds like a great idea, Willy. For privacy reasons, can we talk about job shadowing at your firm through email? My email address is kp0824 @ gmail dot com . Although I’m not in Toronto (currently going to school here in Ann Arbor, MI), I can certainly arrange a trip out there for a couple/few days. I’d be really interested in seeing how things work first hand and making some contacts along the way. I’ll be more than happy to share with you any further information about myself or answer any questions you may have before setting something up between your sub-advisors and myself. I most certainly appreciate the help and I look forward to talking to you further, thank you very much.
daj224 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > kp824 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Thanks Daj. > > > > > > I have never made a specific “research report” > and > > would appreciate any tips, insight, format, or > > examples on how to make a sample? Same thing for > a > > model (though, this would likely be tougher > since > > I don’t have modeling skills because I didn’t > do > > an internship). > > dude, i would love to help you, but i am in the > middle of job interviews and CAIA exam study > myself. what you need to know i cannot explain in > an email. if i were you, I would try to look at a > sell side report from your schools library. > modeling isnt taught like this, over an email > > again, UM has a good librar, use the librarians > there, they are getting paid to help you and most > days probly surf the net. > > if i were you, also, I’d buy a program from wall > street prep – google it I understand, good luck with your interviews and exam Daj! I have a personal trading account with TD Ameritrade and I see that they have “reports” for any stock from a few firms (Ford Equity Research, Standard and Poors, TheStreet, MarketEdge, JayWalk), would this be appropriate reports to follow in creating my own sample? Also, as far as Wall Street Prep, I have heard of it and almost purchased it at the beginning of summer. Before I did, I received advice from a couple people not to do it becasue “you’ll learn modeling when training for your job/internship”, of course I did not land a job/internship, so now circumstances have changed. What are your thoughts on the Training the Street program? At a cost of $200, it seems to have everything the Premium package from WSP, except at half the cost.
> I have a personal trading account with TD > Ameritrade and I see that they have “reports” for > any stock from a few firms (Ford Equity Research, > Standard and Poors, TheStreet, MarketEdge, > JayWalk), would this be appropriate reports to > follow in creating my own sample? > YES, THE FORD REPORT MIGHT HELP. > Also, as far as Wall Street Prep, I have heard of > it and almost purchased it at the beginning of > summer. Before I did, I received advice from a > couple people not to do it becasue “you’ll learn > modeling when training for your job/internship”, > of course I did not land a job/internship, so now > circumstances have changed. What are your thoughts > on the Training the Street program? At a cost of > $200, it seems to have everything the Premium > package from WSP, except at half the cost. STOP WORRYING ABOUT WHAT OTHERS THINK. SPEND WHAT YOU NEED TO SPEND TO ADVANCE YOUR CAREER GOALS. WS PREP IS GOOD, GET THE 500 OR 300 DOLLAR ONE AND WORK SLOWLY THRU IT. TRAINING THE STREET – NEVER USED IT, BUT I DID A SEMINAR WITH EM 2 YEARS AGO. THEY ARE GOOD, BUT I CANT SAY I USED THEIR SEF STUDY PROGRAM LASTLY, “WALL STREET TRAINING” IS ALSO WORTH CHECKING OUT. ALL 2 ARE GOOGLEABLE
Cools, thanks Daj. I think I’m going to go with TTS, simply because it appears to provide better bang for the buck. Though, I’m not sure if I’ll be able to properly work through it this semester. With classes, L1 in Dec, and job search, I’m going to hold off until after the L1 exam (which is right around when fall semester ends). But after that, I’ll go through TTS and learn as much as I can from that program. It would be more beneficial to slowly go through it and properly learn it without the other things I’m trying to handle at the moment.
I think you misunderstood me, don’t email as many human resources contacts as you can find, email the analysts writing the research. You’re at a school with one of the best b-schools in the nation, go into the trading room at Ross and ask the guy who works there to help you access sell-side research. To be honest, with a weak background you should be on top of all of this stuff, I’m sure there are numerous econ grads at michigan who have already done this in just the last few weeks. Given your inability to even attempt to do the simplist things to help yourself you’re probably better off finding a job outside of the industry. 2 years ago you would have had a chance at landing a decent gig but it’s different this year. Keep in mind there are thousands of students like you trying to get a very limited number of positions, you need to aggressively pursue a job in capital markets or go do something else.
bsider - No, I definitely understood what you meant. I was just referencing my blunder last year emailing HR for ibanking positions. I’m not doing that this year, and now realize I have to email the actual analysts for research. I certainly realize the competition is fierce, and the market is currently tough, it’s actually why I’m asking what may seem like simple questions right now. I don’t want to make the stupid mistakes I made last year and kill my chances right off the bat, and am trying to prepare and go about the process in a way that will maximize my time efficiently and effectively. As of right now, I’ve emailed a dozen or so alumni who had listed “investment management/research” as part of their current career. A head analyst in the research department of a rather reputable firm is the only one who responded, but we’re going to talk over the phone next week about just the basics (day in the life, what research is about, what he does, etc.) It’s a start, in addition to reading the Vault guides and identifying firms that have research departments and targeting them as companies to contact.
" Given your inability to even attempt to do the simplist things to help yourself you’re probably better off finding a job outside of the industry. 2 years ago you would have had a chance at landing a decent gig but it’s different this year. Keep in mind there are thousands of students like you trying to get a very limited number of positions, you need to aggressively pursue a job in capital markets or go do something else." PERFECTLY stated. Sell side reports are available on investext: like i said, hit that trading room
Hi guys, thanks for a great forum, this is my first post but I have been reading it for quite some time now. I passed CFA L1 in June and am writing L2 in June 09. I graduated university with a major in Finance combined with Economics a year ago. I have been working in BO as a Portfolio Admin in Toronto for about a year now and would like to get into a Junior Investment Analyst or Equity Research role. My question to WillyR is I noticed you posted something about job shadowing to get a sense of what ER would be like. I know this wasn’t meant for me, but I am wondering if there’s any way I can get this opportunity as well. If you want I can also be reached by email at ma_bernal@sympatico.ca Also if anyone else has any advice for me I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks