MrDonadei Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > e_r_nds thread range from b***ing his associate, > to saying that other people should not complain > about test center blackouts and finally to CFAI > conspiracies… > > He’s so poliedric! lol if i support CFAI on certain issues…that doesnt mean i agree with all their policies…remember none of us here are are perfect…
equity_research_nds Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > MrDonadei Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > e_r_nds thread range from b***ing his > associate, > > to saying that other people should not complain > > about test center blackouts and finally to CFAI > > conspiracies… > > > > He’s so poliedric! > > > sorry wat do u mean by poliedric Means “multi-faceted” - used in this way it is nearly a metaphor as poliedric is usually used to describe polyhedral art.
JoeyDVivre Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > equity_research_nds Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > MrDonadei Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > e_r_nds thread range from b***ing his > > associate, > > > to saying that other people should not > complain > > > about test center blackouts and finally to > CFAI > > > conspiracies… > > > > > > He’s so poliedric! > > > > > > sorry wat do u mean by poliedric > > > Means “multi-faceted” - used in this way it is > nearly a metaphor as poliedric is usually used to > describe polyhedral art. JDV… I heard that some guy had taken the battle to CFAI in regards to continuing education for those who earn CFA charters… and it was voted in favour of not to offer continuing education by approx 55%-45% votes is it true… or just one more legend from the box of CFAI?
So for a full day before exams are graded, the senior grader hands out photocopies on 30 or so essays that are non-guideline answers. The graders assigned to that question then discuss the question and come up with what they think the right number of points should be for that answer. The discussions get pretty academic-heated with discussions very much like we see on AF (minus anonymity), e.g., “That’s just BS - this answer is very close to right. In fact, I think the question is ambiguous enough that this answer is completely right” “Jane, you ignorant slut. That answer sucks”, etc. That is the fairest grading procedure I have ever seen in my life. The people that go down there do it because of commitment to the process and because they enjoy it (roughly the same reasons I post on AF). Geez, I’ve done it. Think that I want to stop people from getting their charters? I want each and every one of you to study hard and get your charters.
equity_research_nds Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > JoeyDVivre Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > equity_research_nds Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > MrDonadei Wrote: > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > ----- > > > > e_r_nds thread range from b***ing his > > > associate, > > > > to saying that other people should not > > complain > > > > about test center blackouts and finally to > > CFAI > > > > conspiracies… > > > > > > > > He’s so poliedric! > > > > > > > > > sorry wat do u mean by poliedric > > > > > > Means “multi-faceted” - used in this way it is > > nearly a metaphor as poliedric is usually used > to > > describe polyhedral art. > > > JDV… > I heard that some guy had taken the battle to CFAI > in regards to continuing education for those who > earn CFA charters… and it was voted in favour > of not to offer continuing education by approx > 55%-45% votes is it true… > or just one more legend from the box of CFAI? Absolutely true. I was hugely opposed to it and spoke up everywhere against it. I got terribly abusive e-mails from a couple of charterholders about it too. Edit: Actually it wasn’t about “offering” continuing education. It was about requiring documented continuing education to keep the charter. I’m certainly not against continuing education or CFAI offering it - I just didn’t want them requiring me to watch some GIPS Podcast and charging me $100 for it. It seemed pretty clear to me that CFAI was making a move in that direction.
so u think there are ppl (aka charterholders) who still believe that Charterholders should time and again revaliadate their charters…
guys, this is a theory as old as mankind… ‘professional graders will fail people so as to avoid competition’ i am a sincere believer that most who pursue CFA are generally professionally qualified already in some other field(before CFA). In most professional courses(like chartered accountancy,medical, enginnering) exams are graded by people who already possess the qualification being graded and yet people pass… i completely and 100% agree to JDV( mY HEARTFELT Thanks for all your posts gentleman) that if any of us shall fail(which i have a very high chance of), it would be due to our own doing rather than graders… Ciao
JoeyDVivre Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > So for a full day before exams are graded, the > senior grader hands out photocopies on 30 or so > essays that are non-guideline answers. The > graders assigned to that question then discuss the > question and come up with what they think the > right number of points should be for that answer. > The discussions get pretty academic-heated with > discussions very much like we see on AF (minus > anonymity), e.g., “That’s just BS - this answer is > very close to right. In fact, I think the > question is ambiguous enough that this answer is > completely right” “Jane, you ignorant slut. That > answer sucks”, etc. That is the fairest grading > procedure I have ever seen in my life. The people > that go down there do it because of commitment to > the process and because they enjoy it (roughly the > same reasons I post on AF). Geez, I’ve done it. > Think that I want to stop people from getting > their charters? I want each and every one of you > to study hard and get your charters. Would working as a grader be a first step towards a salaried position with the CFAI? I have no ambition of working for them full-time, but am curious to know if there are ways to get involved part-time which would be recompensed? The question is not financially motivated, but I would probably have to see something back if I was going to dedicate 2 weeks of my vacation time on a regular basis (or X number of hours per week). Thanks -
i guess some shall fail cause of their own doing, whilst a few cause of grader bias… lets hope we are in neither batch 
i wish all graders / charterholders were as passionate like JDV, but it doesnt work that way. last year, a colleague of mine passed level 3, and pronounced immediately that if he was to grade, he wont pass more than 10% of papers he marked. he’s not a grader, but it is that ‘mindset’ that is troubling some people here. i m sure CFAI makes all reasonable efforts to ensure fairness, and has stringent controls. however, to suggest that humans are perfect sans biases is not quite convincing. there is one thing that CFAI did better this year than last year. last year, you had to write your name on top of the AM answer booklet. this year though, you only had to write your candidate number, and your name and candidate number on the inside flap, that i presume shall be removed when booklets are handed out to graders. i have received my higher education in both American and European style universities, and can comment on where the difference is. in the US, the course tutor /supervisor /professor/or his phd students, normally grade semester exams. You can see your exam, and your professor/tutor can tell you exactly where you were wrong. In Europe (at least UK), university exams are graded by two different professors. If there is a certain difference in their scores, the exam is referred to a third grader. this same process is followed in qualifications such as ACA. the thing is that the CFA exam has grown so big, that it is probably impractical to have any of the above ways, that seem quite transparent and convincing, be followed in grading. i guess we shall have to live with imperfections as they stand, but make efforts to improve the system once we get our charters.
I gather that there is no scope for graders to act like idiots. In a nutshell, each grader marks only one question and if the tally of his/her marks differs significantly from the expected distribution, this is scrutinised. So someone deciding to only pass 10% of people is not possible. Moreover, to the extent that the committee ultimately determines the passing score, individual graders are not able to pass/fail people. Don’t get me wrong, I am sure there is SOME scope for bias. For instance, one might imagine that graders will show slightly varying degrees of tolerance for truly awful handwriting or poorly worded answers. The sheer fact that so many graders will be looking at the answers should surely put most rational individuals’ minds at ease.
Etienne Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > JoeyDVivre Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > So for a full day before exams are graded, the > > senior grader hands out photocopies on 30 or so > > essays that are non-guideline answers. The > > graders assigned to that question then discuss > the > > question and come up with what they think the > > right number of points should be for that > answer. > > The discussions get pretty academic-heated with > > discussions very much like we see on AF (minus > > anonymity), e.g., “That’s just BS - this answer > is > > very close to right. In fact, I think the > > question is ambiguous enough that this answer > is > > completely right” “Jane, you ignorant slut. > That > > answer sucks”, etc. That is the fairest > grading > > procedure I have ever seen in my life. The > people > > that go down there do it because of commitment > to > > the process and because they enjoy it (roughly > the > > same reasons I post on AF). Geez, I’ve done it. > > > Think that I want to stop people from getting > > their charters? I want each and every one of > you > > to study hard and get your charters. > > > Would working as a grader be a first step towards > a salaried position with the CFAI? I have no > ambition of working for them full-time, but am > curious to know if there are ways to get involved > part-time which would be recompensed? The > question is not financially motivated, but I would > probably have to see something back if I was going > to dedicate 2 weeks of my vacation time on a > regular basis (or X number of hours per week). > > Thanks - I don’t think so, but the compensation from CFAI isn’t bad in the greater scheme of things. They feed and house you for a week and pay you something like $1800 (two week gigs are for senior graders who have done regular grading for awhile). It’s probably less than your regular job pays but it’s more than mot college profs make for the same kind of work (the not-fun part of being a college prof).
Etienne Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I gather that there is no scope for graders to act > like idiots. In a nutshell, each grader marks > only one question and if the tally of his/her > marks differs significantly from the expected > distribution, this is scrutinised. So someone > deciding to only pass 10% of people is not > possible. > Right - every day there is a sheet handed out about the average score you gave out the previous day. If you are about one std. dev. either way from the average you get scrutinized. Two std. devs and you would be re-educated. The spreads are pretty tight. > Moreover, to the extent that the committee > ultimately determines the passing score, > individual graders are not able to pass/fail > people. > Right again. An individual grader can ony affect your score on one problem. > Don’t get me wrong, I am sure there is SOME scope > for bias. For instance, one might imagine that > graders will show slightly varying degrees of > tolerance for truly awful handwriting or poorly > worded answers. The sheer fact that so many > graders will be looking at the answers should > surely put most rational individuals’ minds at > ease. Right - The bias is so small that it is nearly insignificant.
JoeyDVivre Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- >> > > I don’t think so, but the compensation from CFAI > isn’t bad in the greater scheme of things. They > feed and house you for a week and pay you > something like $1800 (two week gigs are for senior > graders who have done regular grading for awhile). > It’s probably less than your regular job pays but > it’s more than mot college profs make for the same > kind of work (the not-fun part of being a college > prof). Thanks. Strangely drawn to the idea of being a grader…