Female Marines

Water Cooler
#1

“Group of 4 become first women to complete Marine Corps infantry combat training school”

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/women-complete-marine-combat-training-article-1.1523552

Apparently, the program started with 100 people, 15 people made it past boot camp, and these 4 passed the combat training and physical test. Integration is not complete though, as these women will not be assigned to combat duty.

“The women won’t be assigned to an infantry unit and will instead be assigned to non-combat jobs.”

#2

I like to read the comments.

“I’d like to know why women are not thought fit to be assigned to an infantry unit. They pass the same test as the men. What makes them not good enough? I’d like to think those in charge have put the discrimination crap and the period jokes behind them. Something tells me they have not. Congratulations to these 4 amazing Marines!!!”

“These ladies could take on most men and win, so they should be allowed in combat if they want. It’s not their choice to be in non-combat – the policy needs to change”

“statistically one of those 4 women will be raped in the military”

“These women should be proud of their accomplishments…no­w that they are trained put them on the lines. Women have been fighting and dying in other countries for decades, time to start sending these soldiers to battle.”

#3

I’ll let Greenie address the male marine perspective on this. In a somewhat related scenario, a buddy of mine graduated from the fire academy many years ago and his class was the first to include women locally. He said he would be scared to death to go into a burning building with one of them because none of them had the physical strength to get him out if something went wrong.

#4

If I remember correctly, you have to be able to throw a grenade at least 25 yards in order to not blow yourself up. And if I remember correctly, less than 10% of all women were able to pass that simple test.

Moral of the story–if you’re in a combat situation and you see a female Marine trying to pull a grenade pin, the best thing you can do is shoot her. At least that way only one of you dies.

#5

^ Or run 15 yards in the other direction.

#6

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/congress/3-17-98donnelly.htm

“…comprehensive tests at Parris Island in 1987 and 1990 found that 45% of female Marines could not throw a live grenade safely beyond the 15 meter bursting radius.”

#7

In order to get a perfect score on whatever the physical test is called, a Marine must run 3 miles in 16-17 minutes, do 100 push ups in 2 minutes, and 15 pull ups.

I’ll try that over my lunch hour and see how it goes.

#8

Is that a test to be accepted to start training as a Marine, or a test at the end?

#9

I believe it’s at the end. And that’s a perfect score, not minimum passing IIRC.

#10

No way 16-17 minute 3 miles is the minimum passing score. That’s very fast! Anyway, for military, fire department, or similar occupations, shouldn’t absolute weight bearing be more important than push ups or pull ups? For instance, you can be a 120 lb guy who can do a ton of pull ups but not be able to lift a heavy piece of debris.

#11

Guys, that;s for the perfect score…i.e. the highest attainable. One guy I work out with is in the marines, not sure what rank but he has a bunch of medals and stuff.

He probably weighs 165 and front squated 185 for 15 reps a few days ago. To ohai’s point, I would think that’s a more important measure than push ups.

#12

Running, push ups and pull ups are great indicators of overall physical fitness. It’s not a strength competition after all.

Edit: I grammared bad. Still didn’t put in my oxford comma, though I should have. I left it out as a reminder that the answer to the question, “who gives a f*ck about an oxford comma?” is me. I do. Use them you barbarians.

#13

My point is that absolute strength matters: firefighters must break down doors and lift debris. Marines must carry standard issue gear, and maybe engage in hand to hand combat. Both firefighters and Marines should be able to lift other humans without too much difficulty. So, a 165 lbs guy should be held to the same standard of absolute strength as a 185 lbs guy. Running, push ups, chin ups, etc. should matter also, to the extent that these things indicate fitness and mobility. However, an absolute strength measure is equally important.

#14

This the Marine initial strength test

Male - 2 Pull Ups - 35 Sit Ups (2 minutes) - 1.5 Mile Run - 13:30

Female - Flexed Arm Hang - 12 seconds - 35 Sit Ups (2 Minutes) - 1 Mile Run - 10:30

You would have to be an absolute slob to not be able to pass the female test

#15

Can someone explain to me the physiology that makes it so difficult for women to throw things (other than mean words when they’re mad at you)?

#16

Due to biological imperative and cultural conditioning, Haspel reports, boys throw faster, farther, and, you know, manlier than girls do. While girls tend to favor “a slow, weak, forearm motion, with a short step on the same side as the throwing hand,” boys are partial to “a skillful overhand throw” consisting of a full-body step, rotation, and whip.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2012/09/13/you_throw_like_a_girl_boys_throw_better_than_girls_it_s_true_.html

#17

I’m just surprised in general by how small women are compared to men. I weight about 170 lbs, and my wife is like 50 lbs lighter than me. If I weighed 120 lbs, I would be a skeleton. I can understand how people would come to the conclusion that gender discrimination is practical in jobs that require physical activity.

#18

Again, IIRC, you would not pass by simply doing to minimum of each. The minimum passing score is derived from the total of the three but you have to do well in one if you don’t do well in the other. So, for example, if you can only manage 2 pull ups you need to make it up by running faster or doing more sit ups.

I’m nearly positive that’s the way the test is done once you’re in training. Maybe the initial test is different. Also, the test’s (during training) scoring system and requirements are the same for men and women.

#19

That speaks directly to my buddy’s fear. With full gear, he weighs over 200 pounds. The women who graduated with him had no chance of carrying him out of a building if they had to. I’m sure the uber feminists would argue that the female firefighter could radio for help, but seconds can mean the difference between living and dying when you’re in a burning building.

#20

This is somewhat off topic, but I found this a very interesting study of what makes a good athlete. In baseball, so much of it is experience and being able to see the rotation of the laces of a ball for a split second and then predict where it is going to go. The skill is so sport specific that the below happened. The marine test should probably be similarly specific to the activities infantry has to perform: 100m buddy carry, 10 mile ruck with full pack, and I’d think pull ups stay.

“As part of the pregame festivities, a raft of major league stars had tested their skill against Finch’s underhand rockets. Thrown from a mound 43 feet away and traveling at speeds above 65 mph, Finch’s pitches take about the same time to reach home plate as a 95-mph fastball does from the standard baseball mound, 60’ 6” away. A 95-mph pitch is fast, certainly, but routine for pro baseball players. Plus, the softball is larger, which should make it easier to hit.

Nonetheless, with each windmill motion of her arm, Finch had blown all her pitches by the bemused men. When Albert Pujols, one of the greatest hitters of his generation, stepped forward to face Finch during that practice, the other major leaguers crowded around to gawk. Finch adjusted her pony-tail nervously. A smile stole across her face. She was exhilarated, but she was also afraid that Pujols would hit a line drive right back at her. A silver chain dangled over his expansive chest; each of his forearms was wider than the barrel of the bat.

“All right,” Pujols said softly, indicating he was ready.

Finch rocked back and then forward, whipping her arm in a giant circle. She fired the first pitch just high. Pujols lurched backward, startled by what he saw. Finch giggled.

She unleashed another fastball, this time high and inside. Pujols spun defensively, turning his head away. Behind him, his professional peers guffawed.

Pujols stepped out of the batter’s box, composed himself and stepped back in. He twisted his feet into the dirt and stared back at Finch.

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The next pitch came right down the middle. Pujols uncoiled a violent swing. The ball sailed past his bat, and the spectators hooted.

The next pitch was way outside, and Pujols let it go. The one after that was another strike, and Pujols whiffed again. With one strike remaining, Pujols moved to the back of the batter’s box and dug in, crouching low in his stance.

Finch rocked and fired. Pujols missed badly. He turned and walked away, toward his tittering teammates. Then he stopped, bewildered. He turned back to Finch, doffed his cap and continued on his way.

“I never want to experience that again,” he later said."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/news/20130724/the-sports-gene-excerpt/