Ferguson, MO

Allegedly, the story goes like this.

Michael Brown (a black teenager) and his black friend are walking down the middle of the street. White cop stops them and tells them to “Get the f— on the sidewalk.” Then the cop drives forward a ways, stops, backs up, and almost hits the two black kids.

Cop opens his door, and he’s so close to MB that it hits MB, and the door slams back shut. Cop then grabs MB by the neck, proclaims “I’m gonna shoot you”, then shoots and it hits him. MB runs about ten yards away, then turns around, holds his hand in the air, saying “I’m not armed” and the cop pumps another ten rounds into him.

This is, of course, the friend’s version of the story. The police have yet to tell their version of the story.

But the fact that MB was unarmed is undisputed. Plus, the kid’s body did fall ten yards away from where the cop car was. And the officer went through medical treatment for “a swollen face”.

And Trayvon was a 13-year old, 80 pound kid innocently walking home after buying skittles.

Its scary the ampunt of people who defend the officers actions of killing an unarmed citizen. I dont even consider this a race issue though Im sure it plays a part. I believe that lethal force should be a last resort and only used when protecting the safety of the officer or public, To think this cant happen to you or your family is ignorant of how some police are acting, There is a case where an 18 year old small man was shot and killed by police who were called to the house because his parents were worried about his mental state, he had mental health problems. He did have a knife but was not attacking anyone. He was shot in his house and died. An 8 year old girl was tased because she had a knife and was threatening herself. Tasing someone this small can be lethal. The acceptance of these practices should worry anyone who thinks it cant happen to them because it can.

Yeah baby we’re in the news WOOT WOOT.


hey rev al where ya at brosky


The militarization of US police is truly frightening.

It depends on the story behind the shooting. If an unarmed guy tries to grab the cop’s gun, then he should be shot. Sometimes a cop might reasonably think that the person has a gun (reaching into his pants, for example).

The bottom line is don’t resist arrest. You create a fast-moving and potentially confusing situation where you could very well wind up shot.

And its only going to get worse. My premise being with all the returning military and cases of PTSD, many times these folks will find work in law enforcement. Now before anyone starts attacking this statement it is not a critique or accusation simply a fact. I believe that PTSD is a mental health problem that we should fully treat to the best of our ability. I dont believe that all veterans suffer from it either. But the ones that do and are diagnosed and being treated should not be put in a position of making snap judgments about use of lethal force. This isnt a sweeping indictment just a logical analysis of a current trend. Too many incidents lately of an us vs. them mentality.

F the police.


There was a case in Toronto recently when a cop shot and killed a mentally ill man who was barricaded in a street car alone. Fired some absurd number of rounds. He is being tried for murder. It seems that there is really a shoot first mentality among cops. Perhaps this is justified, perhaps not. If I was in a brawl with some street punk, I don’t want it drawn out. He could have a knife, disease, or kill me in the struggle. Its hard to say in this situation what really went down. If the dead kid did physically attack the officer, then perhaps the use of lethal force may have been justified. I don’t know. If he was surrendering, maybe not, but that is just one side of the story from some punk that was probably up to no good. I’m not necessarily blaming either party here, not until the investigation is complete. What is unacceptable is the actions of the St. Louis county police after the event. What happened the last few nights should not be tolerable to Americans (arresting journalists, shutting down media coverage of the protests).

It seems like in both accounts, the dashcam would provide conclusive evidence as to what happened. I highly doubt that a cop just jumped out of car and randomly threatened to shoot a couple of men, as Brown’s friend claims…

Your post does not contradict what I am saying. In order to protect the safety of the officer or public from potentially lethal action I understand the argument for self defense. However many witness accounts were that MB was not within distance when he was shot to grab the gun and that his hands were in the air. The grandma that was grounded and pounded in LA was not a threat after the first few punches. The woman in AZ was supposedly resisting arrest for jaywalking when she was body slammed. The resisting arrest defense needs to be examined for reason of arrest. If you are attempting to arrest someone for jaywalking then you should be fired for waste of economic resources. Law enforcement should have a legitimate reason for detaining or arresting someone and even this point may seem controversial to some who havent been in this position.

I’m blaming the parties who are rioting before the investigation could even get under way.

Our police have generally adopted the tactical fatigues as general dress and go with the shaved head look. Our police department now allows full graphic arm tattoos as well. Thst said, I work with police in some volunteer work I do and 90% are great people, with a few real interesting folks thrown in. We do have to remember these guys deal with some real scum everyday. Its so easy for us to say we would have acted differently, but you don’t know until you’re there. Some kid slams your door on your face in a dark street, you’re outnumbered and alone. Who knows what any of us would do. Police should be held to a higher standard due to training and their inherent responsibility, but we can’t look past instinctive reactions of self defense.

Agreed about the rioting i dont believe there is justification for destroying your own neighborhood. Agree with the good to bad ratio as well. However when the good defend the actions of the bad without question, then i see a problem. I have met and talked to several law enforcement as well and the underlying theme i tend to see is that they adamantly defend the legitimacy of the laws they enforce without question. Having a thoughtful discussion is almost impossible. I have been in situations of crowd control and physical altercations so the whole argument of not being there doesnt work on me. I think it merits debate not a rush to judgment on either side. And i do advocate dash cams and even body cams. There is no reason we shouldnt be able to see what our public servants are doing.

The police are not there to interpret the laws or adjust them as they see fit. Not in western countries anyway. This is grade 5 social studies here. Legislators mmake and debate laws, police uphold them, judges rule on the appropriateness of the police action. That is our system. Things get messy and ugly when police start negotiating on what the law is. That is for your elected officials and judges to do. I hope all police adamently enforce the laws of the state without question. That is their role. This is why you don’t argue with police. You argue with the DA or judge later. This is western liberal democracy. 100% agreed on being allowed to record police action though. They must be accountible and acting within that law they are upholding (otherwise their moral authority crumbles).

On one hand, yes, police should be accountable for their actions, accidental or otherwise. However, on the other hand, if your job is to patrol shit neighborhoods where everyone hates you and might or might not want to beat you up, I can see how this will result in bad outcomes.

So, I don’t know what is the solution. Cameras will help, so we will know what happened. Other than that, don’t be a sketchy mofo and the police won’t shoot you.

^ This is true. You don’t hear about these evil militarized police chasing Itera down Fifth avenue. Excessive force isn’t OK, but in most cases there is an element of blame on the one getting shot.

Exactly your post shows your lack of experience with us laws. There are so many things that are illegal it would be impossible for cops to do anything but write tickets and arrest people if they enforced them all. They are supposed to be somewhat selective. Could you imagine if everyone was pulled over for driving 5mph over the speed limit? Or jaywalking? Or pulled over for hanging an air freshener? And recently a court ruled that law enforcement need to get a warrant for dumping your cell phone which was completely legal for simply detaining you. Can you imagine jaywalking and then having your entire phone information pulled and reviewed? The laws are so broad that you break the law every day and probably dont know it. Even smoking within a certain distance of doors is illegal in some places.