Freedom of Speech


Yea this would piss me off. I would have started saying some wreckless stuff.

Religious extremism, my favorite sport to watch. I hear in week 7 islam will be going up against judiaism and winner will take on christianity.

I don’t know if there are many Jewish extremists. These guys know how to keep their head down, work hard, and succeed within whatever system they are in. They are essentially white Asians. Islam is a religion that lends itself easily to extremism. Building an Islamic state is a central part of Islam’s teachings, and this probably contributes to the anti-Western establishment mentality in Muslim fundamentalists. In addition, many Muslims live in parts of the world which suffer from economic and political instability. If people are unhappy in general, they tend towards violence or other kinds of problems.

^ Not true. If anything, building a Jewish state is a central part of Jewish teachings, as the the notion of the Holy land plays a huge role among the Judaic peoples.

Which part of my post are you saying is not true? I did not say that Jewish people are not taught to establish a Jewish state. I also did not say that building a religious state necessarily results in extremism, only that it contributes to extremism.

I love it! Testify, brother!

You know why they’re called “Asians”? Because they get all A’s.

However, I find it hard to believe that this woman is really afraid of the Muslims. After all, she’s walking right in front of them, and interacting with them. Not the actions of a victim.

Plus, this is a case where anecdotal evidence is probably far from reality.

The reason the protesters are stupid is because it is people nonviolently protesting the fact that they live in a free (ie non theocratic) state. Also, this is in the UK.

Please point out where in Islamic teachings show the centrality of establishing an Islamic state.

What, so you want me to go get exerpts from the Quran? That like asking where in Christianity we should look for anti-gay stuff. That’s just what Muslim fundamentalists tend to believe, and it is the basis for the actions of MILF and other separatist groups. I did not know that this needed elaboration.

I’m pretty sure there’s something in the Bible about bad stuff happening to he who lies down with his brother or something like that.

Yes, I do want you to post some excerpts, Quran, or the Hadith. You made a statement “Creating an islamic state is central in Islamic teachings, hence the violence”, I said you’re wrong, no such notion exists, and your response is to…whine?

Someone’s in a bad mood today. Congratulations on becoming “that guy”.

You should talk. All I said was, “show me a reference”.

Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!

words, sentences, passages, they are simply semantics that will have different meanings to each individual, this sentence itself will resonate differently within each reader. Due to this very nature of understanding, Ohai could have picked any sentence within the koran, quran, al-qur’an (see my point…) that could have justified his thesis. The very fact that bin laden and al-zawahiri are able to decree fatwas and organise the jihad movement means enough people are able to interpret such readings as to creating an islamic state. I read Raymond Ibrahim’s book “The Al queda reader” back in the day to understand these concepts. I recommend all that have an interest in this subject to do so for he clearly delineates the opposition (or allied) case.

clearly ohai is racist

Muhammad formed the first Islamic State with the Constitution of Medina. I don’t know how much of that is in the Quran, but if the prophet of your religion founds a state based on said religion, it’s probably a fairly common belief amoung present day muslims that they should have their own state.

Edit: I didn’t bother sourcing since google told me everything in 0.00016 seconds.

That doesn’t make sense. Just because Muhammad founded such a state (questionable), it doesn’t mean that creation of such a state is central to Islamic teachings.

Who would rule an Islamic state? Islam doesn’t recognize a clergy, so clerical rule (like Iran) is out of the question, only Allah has authority, so it doesn’t recognize sovereignty of a king (like KSA), and democratic notions hadn’t existed in 7th century Arabia, so that’s not possible either.

An Islamic state is just a state that incorporates Islamic laws into its government. It’s not a hypothetical thing: many Islamic states exist today: Pakistan, Indonesia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Malaysia, etc. The actual governmental structures of Islamic states vary. For instance, some Islamic states are republics and others have monarchs. The degree of Islamification also varies, with some states using more literal interpretations of the quran and stricter enforcement of Islamic laws than others. Muhammad’s history is not fictional: he united a large part of the Arabian world and organized it around his religion. He accomplished this through force of arms (hence the saying that Islam was spread “on the tip of a sword”*).

When an Islamic state has a monarch, the state generally regards that the monarch has received some sort of holy endorsement entitling them to that position. I don’t know the English word for it, but it more or less means “blessing”, and the monarch is usually also the head of religion for that country - like some sort of pope. Even in Islamic republics, there is no necessary conflict between authority of government and Islamic law, provided that the country’s laws do not supercede and generally agree with Islamic law. It is possible to have two different governing authorities (religion and non-religious laws), just like it is possible for both mom and dad to have authority over kids.

When Islamic fundamentalists advocate for the formation of Islamic states, think of this as advocacy for a particular governmental leaning. The difference between Islamic fundamentalists and normal political protesters (who want small government, gay rights, or other things) is that Islamic fundamentalists set their target much further to the extreme, such that their goals cannot be practically achieved without the formation of an actual Islamic government.

*I assume this is not a reference to the practice of circumcision.