GO USA, GO!!!!!!!!

Water Cooler
#101

If it suits you to believe im a leftist or whatever that means then fine, go ahead. It is interesting to see that instead of discussing the issue at hand you seem insistent to apply labels and then drawing a trajectory to a different place.

I suspect a career in politics would suit you very well ;).

As for your trajectory if you had read the thread a bit more we have already spoken about it. There are children worse off in India, the difference being India is focussed on devpt, the building of schools and hospitals, there are NGO’s across the country where people of different socio economic background spend time with the less fortunate. Despite the justice system being backlogged, it is a country committed to the rule of law. Children are not being brought up to hate others who are different from them. It will take time but all the right effort is being made and while it will 25-30 years for the change to be visible it remains a country on the right path and one that has just bought a one way ticket to the first world. All that is required now is patience.

Who speaks for the Gaza kids who don’t have enough schools to educate themselves in, who live without basic human rights and live in a reigon where _ no effort is being made in that direction? _

Peace and reconciliation. It is possible. It has been done. Don’t listen to career politicians who tell us peace and humanity is an idealistic dream. This man from Gaza who has lost his children says it is possible. Who are we to argue?

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/43622_Update-_As_a_Father_Who_Lost_His_Children_in_Gaza_I_Call_for_an_End_to_This_Bloodshed

#102

I think the fact that the thread moved towads India’s take on Israel-Palestine ruined the thread.

How did i ruin the thread??If i quoted one statement from Sydney times does this means i ruined the thread??

All of my comments (except the 1st one) were my original thoughts.BigS was only able to provide the link for my 1st comment and i never told that my 1st comment was original.

Our opinions are always inspired by media (ie newspapers etc).All my comments about India’s take on the conflict is perfectly original .

I have seen igor posting nonsense stuffs about me every where for 6 months.Now i have had enough and i will give him back whenever he speaks shit about me.I have already mentioned that if igor decides to ignore me…i will do the same and thus no threads will be ruined due to our (me and igor’s) nonsense fights.

Any ways geo sir take my sincere apology .

#103

I didnot…

I have already mentioned that my 1st post was inspired from Sydney times.BigS will never be able to provide links for rest of my comments in this thread.

#104

I don’t hold Igor harmless in the constant thread derailments here either… Then again, you’re both probably the same guy.

#105

Honestly Geo, I find your posts on this matter hilarious. What the fuck do you really know about what you are saying right now? Have you even been to the Gaza strip before or even that part of the world for that matter? Do you know people on the ground and have you been involved in any kind of meaningful philanthropic efforts or any other kind of political initiatives beyond being an AF obsessed political pundit? You are uninformed plain and simple, as I highly doubt that a typical Canadian like you has been in trenches and seen first hand how people live in occupied Palestine.

While you are free to make whatever commentary you would like on an anonymous internet forum, I suggest you keep your mouth shut about things you cannot possibly know anything about beyond your shitty Canadian media coverage of the event. Why your country of Canada continues to dick ride Israel to the end of the earth is really beyond me as well. I suppose it’s not such a surprise in the end though since most people from Toronto are knowitall dipshits with an inferiority complex (considering Toronto is not NY or any real world class city for that matter), but you should invest in trying to gain some real life experience outside your treasury job in Toronto and develop an informed opinion for a change.

FYI, I am a Canadian national living in the US, who has lived in more than one Middle Eastern country who does not happen to be a Palestinian or Arab.

#106

^

Don’t hold back :). Instead of abuse which serves nothing maybe you can educate geo, yes?

God knows some americans also need a lot of it…

#107

Thanks for the as hominem attack there champ. Care to contribute to the discussion? You sound like a little grade 11 social studies nerd that believes that every opinion different than yours is dead wrong. Grow up. I respect the opinions of those supporting Palestine. I just don’t agree with them. That’s a level of maturity that you lack. I understand Palestians are horribly repressed and the refuge situation there is awful. I don’t agree with Israel building walls and blockading them into the stone age. I believe in a peaceful two state solution where Arabs live equally with Jews in the region. But I have no tolerance for using rocket attacks on civilians to advance your cause and I will support any country that needs to take action to protect its civilians from terrorists. I don’t need to live among the refuges of Palestine to disagree with terrorism. What nonsense. And I’m not in treasury, or in Toronto, and I’m likely as well traveled as you.

#108

Death toll so far roughly

Israel : 20 dead, 3 civilians

Palestine : 600+ civilians dead.

#109

^ Again, Hamas surrounds their rocket sites with civilians. What do you expect IDF to do? Shrug their shoulders and let their towns get bombed? Hamas was presented an opportunity to end the conflict before escalation. Israel stood there and took the attacks for several days while offering a ceasefire via Egypt and Hamas declined. Only then did Israel move. Honestly tell me just what the hell Israel should do about the rocket attacks right now? Do you honestly expect them to just sit there and take it?

#110

#111

Yeah we all know how much Israel wants peace.

Refuse to give them a country, refuse to allow investment to flow in, bomb the fuck out of a defenseless population, invade a neighboruring country for 2 decades and finally leave because another group finally stands up to them, build illegal settlements, teach hate in their schools when they are the ‘liberal democracy’.Everyone knows the travesty of the peace deal, maybe you should read about it. Hamas have offered to stop pal, know what the terms are? I do, it isn’t much either and Israel refused.

Instead of flushing out terrorists which the highly advanced Mossad and IDF are more than capable of doing they rain rockets on one of the most densely populated reigon on earth and _ bomb designated UN peace shelters _.

Madness, this is not the actions of a liberal tolerant democracy. Why the fk should palestines believe a word they say? They laid down their weapons in Beirut and were slaughtered like sheep.

Again one fo the founders of Israel said openly we will not live here with the arabs. At least read the thread. The saying might be cliched and horribly used but never is it more true here ‘One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter’.

All those fedora wearing hippies might be uninformed but they are absolutely fking right when they say free palestine

#112

Israel censoring the media now, democracy in action

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-gaza-conflict-2014/1.606908

#113

Isildurr - I am curious to know, do you support Kashmir independence as well? You know the vast majority of Kashmiris want independence. How about Chechen independence?

#114

The designed UN peace shelter had a rocket stockpile. And UN workers were even handing the rockets to Hamas. IDF warned them to evacuate. They declined. Does Hamas warn Israelis in advance of a strike? No. You still haven’t answered my question about what Israel should do about the rocket strikes. Do you believe they should just accept it? When Ireland wanted peace, the paramilitaries on both sides laid down arms first. On one side of my family I am 3rd generation Irish and actually qualify for citizenship there so I have sympathy for a united Ireland. None the less, violence was not the answer. I would not have expected Britain to negotiate with Sinn Fein with bombs exploding in London. You cannot demand open borders while launching rockets. Its not possible for Israel to negotiate on those terms. Hamas is opposed to the existence of Israel. That’s a fundamental hurdle that needs to be cleared before the long-term issues you mention can be addressed. But those issues cannot be address during open warfare. A ceasefire must come first and that was on the table and Hamas declined it. Also remember that there has been relative peace between Israel and the West Bank where Hamas is not as much of a factor. Israel is not the instigator.

#115

There’s no point debating with someone who’s as entrenched in their views like yourself, but I’ll throw some facts out there just so we have a balanced perspective on AF.

Yes, they do, considering that they have long-standing peace agreements with several Arab countries.

I never heard anything about this so I did a quick google search. Big surprise! The amount of hate taught in Israel’s school doesn’t even compare to that of Arab schools.

Wow talk about cognative dissonance. A few days into this conflict Israel agreed to a truce which was basically just a cease-fire which would allow the two sides to talk and work out a long-term solution. Hamas did not agree. Now that the IDF has fully committed to the operation and has Hamas backed into a corner, why would they agree to a cease-fire before they can fully secure all the tunnels and as many munitions as possible?

The killing of civilians is horrific - no reasonable person will argue otherwise. Sadly, civilian casualties is the reality of every war. In fact, the ratio of civilian to terrorist deaths in the “war on terror” is much higher than the roughly 4:1 ratio seen in this conflict (which is using data reported by Palestinian sources, mind you). Most other major wars have similar statistics I believe, I just don’t have time to look up the data right now.

#116

The restraint Israel has shown is amazing. Imagine if the balance of power was reversed. That thought should be enough to convince one which side they should support. All land has been conquered. The land is claimed by those that establish, borders, language and culture, until those borders are successfully challenged once again. The idea of a historical claim is just a matter of where in time you decide to stop. A few modern democracies have said lets stop the conquering and give our citizens political and economic freedom. Some have not. Which World would you rather live in? That’s the difference.

Check out the Economic Freedom Index issued by the Fraser Institute. Interesting how the well-being of citizens correlates to the economic and political freedom of the country.

#117

You are entitled to debate with whom you wish but my view is not entrenched. I stand only for two things :

Stopping the slaughter of innocent civilians NOW

Recognition of a palestine state ASAP.

They made peace with Lebanon after illegaly occupying the south of that country for over a decade only when an organization known as Hezbollah formed and was able to go toe to toe with them. Heard of Hezbollah? The USA classifies them as a terrorist organization yet they draw support from all sections of lebanese society including druze christians.

When the peace accords in Oslo were in full swing the PLO recognized the ‘state of Israel’. It should have been the defining moment and the start of a new day. What did Israel do? They refused to recognize a palestine state, instead coming out with phrases like ‘representative of the palestine people’. They bribed Arafat and bombed him the next day, they then went on to continue building ilegal settlements. Hamas was not even in the picture.

Absolutely and you have just expanded on what i’m going to say. The palesteniens have nothing. They have no land, no schools, no money, no pride and no dignity. The israelis have taken everything from them.This environment breeds hate. When a palestine kid watches his father killed or a father watches his daughters legs blown off and they have no hope for a better future what do you think they will do? Learn hate, their life is over so they believe that martyrdom bullshit and give their lives for a dream that they can never realize. You say they will secure all the tunnels but then what? If they don’t give the palestines their country and continue to treat them like how they did before Hamas, what does it matter?

Israel have to be the bigger person here, they have the money, the western backing, the iron dome, the most sophisticated army in the middle east, the nuclear weapons yet they prod and poke the little guy, belittle him and when he takes a swing they kick him to the ground and smash his head in. This is madness.

Why is a liberal democracy censoring the media? Why are they building illegal settlements to provoke? Do you know why Hamas refused? I do…maybe you should check it out (no malice or snide vibe intended).

Most palesteniens that have a voice don’t even feel Hamas represents them anymore, Hamas destroyed the fragile democratic base in palestine and their motto is basically a palestine life for their homeland. Israel believe in killing when provoked. If this continues then soon all 1.7 mlllion odd in that great open air prison will be dead and we will all be complicit to genocide.

We should’ve learnt from this before, Gandhi and Mandela showed us a better way when they preached forgiveness and inclusion. There are palestiniens and israelis on both sides who believe this two, I posted the personal account of one such Arab man. We can never walk down this path till we lift economic sanctions and recognize the palestine state for what it is, an independent country and the longer we dither or the more israel bombs the only thing we do is create more hate.

Whatever happens will happen and we all despise Hamas, we have nothing against the jews and israelis except for maybe Netanyahu and the guy who shot down Karmin but like I said before we need to give the innocent palestines a voice and they need their freedom and as long as countries keep voting like this, humanity will keep loosing.

#118

Why do you support recognition of a Palestinian state when Hamas had a stated charter goal of eliminating Israel from the map? Isn’t that kind of one sided? And congrats on getting support from China, Cuba and Saudi Arabia on human rights. Bravo. Note that any country that actually has first world level respect for human rights abstained (I might be willing to give you Child, but that’s only one).

#119

^ At least the US had the balls to vote “No”. All those who abstained should be ashamed of themselves. Take a stand and deal with the consequences!

#120

Because Hamas is probably not even representative of the Palestine people anymore. They were voted on the backdrop of the decline of Arafat who had tried peace (didn’t turn out too well) and quickly moved to eradicate Fatah and destroyed the democratic base in Palestine. We just don’t know but we cannot treat them as sub par and suppress their freedom just because they might choose a wrong path. and even if they do once they have the ability to build schools, education and a globalizing world that hopefully accepts them will correct them

Give the palesteniens a country and something to build and support for Hamas will go. It’s happened quite often before.

The second part is exactly my point. If countries with such apalling records of human rights like Saudi can agree with progressive countries who are committed towards their people like Indonesia, India, Mexico etc but USA votes no they we can safely say the favoritism is sickening.