I am not surprised that in typical Canadian mentality, in any comparison Canada vs US, Canada always ends up winning and Americans always ends up inferior. (Just like any of the molson Canadian commercials.) The fact is Canadians are very uninformed about the us, and the price of ignorance is that they end up paying $10,000 extra for a $30000 car compare to their neighbors few miles to the south. Having worked on both sides of the border as a big firm auditor, let me share some of my experience and perhaps paint a more realistic picture. Comparing the difficulty of the two exams (UFE vs Uniform CPA) is intrinsically biased as with typical Canadian firms, exam candidates are given several months off to study, where as their American counterparts are not given any. Compensation comparison is also meaningless as two designations have different requirement for qualifying experience (typically 3 years for ca and one year for cpa). What people ought to be comparing is the salaries at different stages of the career continuum. Senior Associate vs Senior Associate; New Manager vs New Manager. In such comparisons I guarantee you the American CPAs make much more and have a lot more exit opportunities than the Canadian CAs. In a large US city the starting pay for a fresh accounting grad at a big 4 firm is 50k – 55k (vs 35k -45k in Canada). At the end of their first two years, the americans will be making 65k in public and 70k in industry (vs. 40k – 48k in Canada). By the time the Canadians finish their ufe and get that long overdue salary bump, the Americans have long quit their public accounting jobs goodbye and moved on to bigger and better things in indsutry. CICA has always marketed CA as a substitute for MBA and the shining door to a career in high finance. The truth is if you look around, the people who slave their way through the ufe (thinking it will all be over real soon) will continue slaving away in public accounting for their entire career, as the exit opportunities are not as rosy as cica would want them to believe (and rightfully so, as why on earth would anyone think tracing numbers would have to do with managing portfolio?) And CPA is no more in supply than CA. There are about 400,000 CPAs in the US while Canada, having 1/10 the total population, has 70,000 CAs.
are you a CA/CPA? Hmmm some interesting points…did you factor in cost of living into the salaries? Also, you said that you worked on both sides of the border as an auditor, how long did you work in Canada? Where do you work and what do you do now? btw, qualifying experience for CAs is 2 years (8 months of which can be earned during undergrad during summers). one more thing…not sure how it is in the states (maybe you can elaborate) but they changed the experience requirements so now a CA candidate doesnt have to work in Audit if they don’t want to practice public accounting. the comment about CAs -> finance related work came straight from the mouth of a PM I had lunch with here in Montreal. the other comment about CPAs not = CAs came from the mouth of another person (does equity research) I talked to who works in Chicago (originally canadian tho).
I worked in Vancouver and GBA respectively. Both to me fall in the extremely high cost of living category. Housing in Vancouver is only slightly less ridiculous than GBA, yet salaries are far lower. Yes I am a CA/CPA, and there are many like me in the US (another indication of inflated career opportunities and earning potential of chartered accountancy in Canada). You will find some Canadian CAs in every big 4 office in California, for example. I still work in public accounting. I am getting CFA for valuation work. Both CA and CPA can acquire the experience from a combination of full time employments. For CPAs, certain states require experience certification of only in terms of years, in other states certification of number of years and competencies (similar to CICA) is required. Either way, the fact that CPA licensing and exam taking is more independent of the firm (no firm sponsorship required) means it gives cpa candidates a lot more mobility early on in their career. Turnover in first year is not uncommon. And that mobility makes sure CPA candidates are a lot higher compensated than the CA candidates. I am aware that provincial institutes are changing the qualifying experience requirement, sadly for the same reason they’ve been denying Canadian candidates for years - that the rest of the developed world has accepted non-public experience for years - thanks for telling us Canadian rules are arcane, CICA! For as long as I can remember, CICA’s been claiming their rejection to non-public accounting experience as yet another one of their superiorities over AICPA. How ironic. I do not have first hand experience to share with you about the value of CAs in the eyes of PMs. But as for stories about my CA friends who attempt and fail to enter finance (and end up slaving away in public), I have plenty. My own observation tells me turnover at public firms in US is much higher and there is just a lot more descent industry accounting jobs. I don’t think CPA in comparison has better advantage in finding employment in finance. Both CA and CPA are accounting designations, they are not meant (and should not be marketed) as a stepping stone to a career in finance (Granted, occasionally there are successful crossovers.) Accountants are not equipped with the quantitative modeling skills required by finance professionals. CA in Canada became marketed as a substitute for MBA and a Finance designation due to a weird combination of low supply of quality jobs, weak MBA programs, and CICA’s competition with other accounting bodies (CGA and CMA). In the US where descent jobs are abundant, there’s no real need for “stepping stone”, and that is why Americans do not understand why those Canadians who want to enter finance do not do so directly. Also, CPA really has no competition (and it’s administered by state governments) thus there is no incentive to market it as anything more than an accounting designation (despite the descent pay) or any kind of inflated comp surveys.
interesting and informative posts, thank you. I’m curious, how many hours would you estimate it took to complete all four parts of the CPA exams? I am still a student and my plan B is to complete the CPA along with parts of the CFA/CAIA/FRM for an entry level research job.
Most people take the exam as they work, sometimes during busy season. So if you are studying full time, I think 2-3 weeks per part should be ample. Exam prep course is crucial to success and helps you focus on important topics, so you may want to make use of that (most people will take the exam after they start working as big firms reimburse exam costs and sometimes the prep course as well). If you do not pass any part, do not fret, as most people don’t pass all parts on the first sitting. Personally I think it’s a good idea to get the exam done and over with when you’re at school. Because very often when you start working, it becomes very hard to find time to study. Especially the better you are at what you do, the more workload the harder the assignments you will be given. I see many people who are promoted fast and given the hardest assignments have a tough time passing the exam even when they are due for promotion to management. If your aim is to land a job in research, I think more quantitative and programming background will help tremendously. I know some firms will require CFA and/or advanced degree in a quantitative field for a research associate position. These are my own experience, hope it helps!
thanks, very helpful. I’m actually kind of worried that my lack of quantitative and complete lack of programming skills will harm me in a deep way. I am doing the CFA and other minor studies though with the CPA.