Greece, the US and Socialist Populism

It’s obviously in EU and US best intererst to prevent Greece from falling under… But we should note that Greece’s problems are built upon corruption, irresponsible spending and more importantly socialist populism policies for years… It’s the socialist approach the made their government fat, work force lazy and general public demanding. They deserve to fail and fall hard so hopefully they can learn from their lessons. The question to you guys is: do you think the US, with its increasingly populist politics, is heading the Grecian direction?

Papandreou took the prime minister post from Costas Karamanlis, whose conservative New Democracy (ND) party suffered its worst electoral defeat ever, trailing more than ten percentage points behind the Socialists in the October 4th vote. Looks like those darn libruls have bankrupted another country. And by libruls I mean conservatives of course. So the logic here is that a conservative political party undertaxes and over spends, and then it is blamed on the opposition party? It would be funny except for the fact that people are dumb enough to believe it.

The party may be the more conservative out of the two, but I’m guessing it’s wayyyyy left of what we consider conservative in the US. Say what you want, but among the biggest reasons Greece has such a large deficit is socialist entitlment programs and the large presence of unions. Those are liberal ideologies.

You mean they cant see Russia from their house?

You’re a one trick pony, BizBanker.

Umm, the “conservative” party in Greece would make America’s most liberal Democrats blush. Whatever label you give Greece, its decades of entitlement spending, public labor unions, and excessive deficits and national debt combined with the Euro have sufficiently bankrupted the nation. I was reading a non-opinion article in the Guardian several days ago and the article mentioned in passing that public policy/entitlement and labor union reform were attempted by several of the previous governments but were always haulted out of fear of violence that came from the Greek left when they would riot. For those not particularly familiar with Greek politics (I’m not expert), the communist party has a sizeable following in Greece and, of course, the socialists are one of several major parties.

kkent Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > but were always haulted out of fear of violence > that came from the Greek left when they would > riot. nuthin’ a good taser’n can’t fix

Im a several trick pony Joe. I really like that line though I havent used it before. And I frequently debate with a conservative lawyer who also happens to be a CA bar grader, Im pretty sure I could clean the floor with most if not all of you. So the lesson we should take from this is that the Greeks elected a right of far left party, who thought it was wise to use a Wall Street firm to mask their deficit through derivative products, and are now being voted out in favor of the Socialist party to fix the mess. Are they just dumb or what? Besides the fact that comparing our economy and societal differences is difficult as they are a culture first and believe in taking care of other citizens, its a pretty tough call to think that we can export US capitalism and politics into other cultures that simply dont want them.

“mask their deficit through derivative products,” How was that deficit created? The principles of limited government and fiscal restraint espoused by true conservatives? FYI: Please do not use the words Bush or Palin - I do not consider them conservatives. Words like “conservative” or “Liberal” are empty labels - as Bush and the Greek conservative party helped prove. You’re a one trick pony in this way: You can’t admit that a leftist policy failed (even one LIGHT YEARS to the left of Obama’s agenda, and I suspect, your own). There is no doubt that the socialist entitlement programs contributed greatly to this miss. Just admit it.

I admit many leftist policies have failed. It is just pathetic when people argue that all leftist policies and governments fail. I have the same belief in capitalist policies. Many work very well, and some certainly will lead to failure. Norwegian countries practice leftist politics and seem to have a comfortable and happy standard of living. While countries who practice completely capitalist transitions like China will have a pretty eye opening experience when their sins catch up with them. I dont think the EU will survive very long because it is attempting to create an umbrella monetary policy with several diverse interests and cultures that have different beliefs in the size and role of government, much like our country has a learned fear of big government from our own history. I use Bush and Palin because the discourse coming from the “voices” of the conservative movement lately are pathetic and lack a grounding in simple reality. Rushbo saying that “the oil is a natural substance and will absorb into the environment”. Seriously? And Palin is a darling of the Tea Partiers, yet is a complete empty vessel of knowledge much less anything else. Romney, who I happen to have some interest in hearing more from, instituted a healthcare policy similar to BO when he was gov of MA. Yet the TP are rallying against the healthcare bill and supporting Romney? What the hell does the conservative movement in our country stand for seriously? All I hear is that they are POd at that “Kenyan Muslim in the White House”. Do I want to see a serious politician or commentator from the right with arguments grounded in reality? You betcha.

I dont think its fair to lump the entire center right in with the Tea Partiers; thats like calling every member of the center left a granola munching hippy. (When you take into account the entire broad spectrum of political parties and views, our Republican/conservative and Democrat/liberal parties/ideologies are considered center right and center left… I prefer those terms because they are accurate and do not have any inherent emotional charge or bias). While I agree with you that TP is the loudest and most visibile faction of the ‘conservative’ movement, I think you can agree with me that frequently the loudest or most well known does not equate to most representative…? I also agree with you that the political dialogue would be great improved in the US if we had the moderate, majority voices from both parties heard the loudest. From a media standpoint, however, that wouldn’t drive ratings or push copy now, would it?

Your analysis is idealistic and I wish it was like that but it isnt. Michael Steel could have taken on Rushbo last year when he attacked the POTUS and “I hope he fails” rhetoric and but he didnt. Sarah Palin could have attacked Rushbo the same way she attacked Rahm Emanuel for the “retarded” comments but she caved. The main stream Republicans are afraid of the fringe and thats the problem. Charlie Crist is being pushed out of his own party for his senate run for being too moderate. Snowe and Collins are going to be attacked for “cooperating”. Democrats distanced themselve from for the Betray Us comments and they do constantly distance themselves from the Michael Moores. So no it is not the same. I prefer a bunch of states rights fiscal conservatives to the gun toting abortion doctor killing fringe any day but that just isnt reality. I would like to see strategic voting entered into politics but that is idealistic as well. The problem is that their policies either dont work or are unrealistic for the long run and they need to feed on emotion to create the hate and activity. Which to me tells me all I need to know about my political alliances.