What kind of software can be used to manipulate markets ? Leave it to the Russians … “The bank has raised the possibility that there is a danger that somebody who knew how to use this program could use it to manipulate markets in unfair ways” http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a_6d.tyNe1KQ
I’m sorry, what was Goldman doing with $150 oil again? 
TheAliMan Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I’m sorry, what was Goldman doing with $150 oil > again? Would be $200 a barrel by the end of 2008 according to their technical analysis
I would guess that what they mean is that if you know how Goldman will do its prop trades, you could theoretically trade against them. That being said, I don’t think there is such a thing as conspiracy to manipulate the market, particularly if he hasn’t even changed the program. It would be easier to just compete against Goldman, than trade against them.
lmao I like his salary though 400k… obviously a high frequency trader… sometimes i wish i knew C++…
Meh
comp_sci_kid Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > lmao > > I like his salary though 400k… obviously a high > frequency trader… sometimes i wish i knew > C++… I don’t think it’s just about C++. The Russians who were in grad school with me were the best prepared in math, numerical methods and programming entering the program (Chinese, Indians and others couldn’t touch them). They obviously had first picks when it came to on-campus recruiting as a result.
mo34, what did you take for your grad degree?
ozzie123 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > mo34, what did you take for your grad degree? Ph.D Aerospace Engineering.
Holy rocket scientist whatcha doing now?
Hey mo34, I’ve heard lots of times that the Russians are unusually good with computer programming and theoretical science. I’m curious, how would you describe what it is exactly that they do better and are there any specific reasons for it? You would think if the answer is simply “their science programs are better,” then we would buy off a few top professors and import the programs. There has to be more to it than that since these programs survived the fall of the Soviet Union when scientists left en masse. The Russians are currently trying to commercially exploit this knowledge but they seem to be clueless about how to make the theoretical knowledge practical. They do seem to know how to wreak cyber-havoc, though.
Mr. Tambourine Man Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > You would think if the answer is simply > “their science programs are better,” then we would > buy off a few top professors and import the > programs. There has to be more to it than that > since these programs survived the fall of the > Soviet Union when scientists left en masse. It’s true that many professors fled to other countries with a better pay but it has nothing to do with that. It’s the entire education system in Russia - from the early age and into universities. You can’t “import” that.
The answer must be more complex than that. I lived in Russia and know a lot of Russians. I wouldn’t say that in general their knowledge of math and science is so superior at the school level. No one argues that their school system is in decline. Their university system is also not nearly what it was in the Soviet times and is drastically underfunded. Plus, most people seem to agree that the US university system is one of the best in the world, if not the best. So given all that, I scratch my head when hearing that Russia is putting out all these first class computer and technology world beaters. Are there private institutes where people learn this stuff? Special school programs?
Mr. Tambourine Man Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The answer must be more complex than that. I lived > in Russia and know a lot of Russians. I wouldn’t > say that in general their knowledge of math and > science is so superior at the school level. No > one argues that their school system is in decline. > Their university system is also not nearly what > it was in the Soviet times and is drastically > underfunded. Plus, most people seem to agree that > the US university system is one of the best in the > world, if not the best. So given all that, I > scratch my head when hearing that Russia is > putting out all these first class computer and > technology world beaters. Are there private > institutes where people learn this stuff? Special > school programs? Could it be that the best and brightest do not have many avenues of making money in Russia so they come to the US to do so? It seems much more plausible to me that when you look at what you say (and what I’ve seen about Russia’s infrastructure), that this is more likely.
Could it be possible that Russians are simply genetically superior to the rest of the world when it comes to math?
Lack of opportunity is one of the reason. I was at Rice with two Russian friends. Both of them were way above the others in Maths. They were discriminated against due to their “nationality” (=religion) to go the best school/major, so they came to US. I do not think their schooling is any better. It is just which field has more career avenues in a country. This tends to concentrate “bright” population. Engineering in India, Maths and Science in old Russia, …The top percentage, ones that tend to migrate, in these areas are naturally very bright, but I do not think you can deduce that schools are superior or, more ridiculously, that some nation is smarter in some subjects.
Mr. Tambourine Man Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Hey mo34, I’ve heard lots of times that the > Russians are unusually good with computer > programming and theoretical science. I’m curious, > how would you describe what it is exactly that > they do better and are there any specific reasons > for it? You would think if the answer is simply > “their science programs are better,” then we would > buy off a few top professors and import the > programs. There has to be more to it than that > since these programs survived the fall of the > Soviet Union when scientists left en masse. > Not sure what made them stronger in math and programming, but I remember buying some cheap translated Russian textbooks when I was in undergrad (at about 5% of the price of the equivalent American textbook ) and there was no connection to what you would generally find in a typical American style textbook. You know how american style textbook show you every step needed to solve a problem and have nice pictures, many examples, … to make learning easier. The Russian books are the exact opposite, they show you the main points and you have to figure out what happened in the middle, I had to work hard just to understand what the book is trying to explain. I’m glad I can afford American books now Seriously these guys generally combine the work ethics of the Asians plus the out-of-the-box mentality of the Americans, so you get someone who has ideas and is willing to work hard to implement them. The Germans at my school were not far behind, maybe followed by the French in terms of mathematical knowledge.
Hahah yeah, when I came to Canada and saw the massive textbooks they handed out to kids in school I was like “wow, must be a lot of knowledge in there”. Let me tell you, it was hell. It’s not about knowledge, it’s about publishing/printing companies making these text books look fancy so they can justify making more $ out of it. They publish “new versions” every few years. I’m sorry, no new math concepts come out every year that kids aboslutely need to learn. When I was still in school in Russia, we used books that were 10 years old and they did their job just fine. Plus, these Canadian books are so heavy, poor 12 year old kids have to carry bricks in their back packs.
kblade Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Hahah yeah, when I came to Canada and saw the > massive textbooks they handed out to kids in > school I was like “wow, must be a lot of knowledge > in there”. > > Let me tell you, it was hell. It’s not about > knowledge, it’s about publishing/printing > companies making these text books look fancy so > they can justify making more $ out of it. They > publish “new versions” every few years. I’m sorry, > no new math concepts come out every year that kids > aboslutely need to learn. When I was still in > school in Russia, we used books that were 10 years > old and they did their job just fine. > > Plus, these Canadian books are so heavy, poor 12 > year old kids have to carry bricks in their back > packs. haha … I guess if you grow up having to first decipher the textbook, before actually learning the material, it gives you some kind of edge
The Daily Kos: If ya ain’t cheatin’, ya ain’t tryin’." Apparently, Goldman Sachs has been booted out from doing computerized quant trades at the New York Stock Exchange… The big ticket, the magic wand for a rogue quant shop is technology to grab off FIX PROTOCOL, OCX, or SWIFT messages that precede every transaction commit at the Exchanges. Grabbing information is way hotter for conquering Wall Street than owning a crystal ball… SUMMARY: Goldman Sachs may just possibly have used security access codes and built a system to acquire trading information PRIOR to transaction commit time points at NYSE. The profitability of this split-second information advantage would have been and could have been extraordinary. Observed yielding profits at $100,000,000 a day. [summary to address complaints with respect to complexity.] GS has special access inside the system from its status assisting the Working Group on Financial Markets (colloquially the Plunge Protection Team) created by Presidential Order two decades ago. GC also acts as Special Liquidity Provider for NYSE. With 60% dominance of NYSE program trading, what’s good for Goldman defines what shows as overall market performance. http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/7/7/750786/-Incredibly-Shrinking-Liquidity-as-Goldman-Flushed-Quant-Trading Karl Denniger: God help Goldman if this is true and the government goes after them. This would constitute massive unlawful activity. Indeed, the allegation is that Goldman alone was given this access! God help our capital markets if this is true and is ignored by our government and regulatory agencies, or generates nothing more than a “handslap.” Nobody in their right mind would ever trade on our markets again if this occurred and does not result in severe criminal and civil penalties. There apparently is reason to believe that Sergey might have been involved in exactly this sort of coding implementation. Specifically, look at the patent claims cited on DailyKos; his expertise was in fact in this general area of knowledge in the telecommunications world… This is precisely the sort of thing that a Unix machine, sitting on a network cable where it can “see” traffic potentially not intended for it, could have an interface put into what is called “promiscuous mode” and SILENTLY sniff that traffic! ASSUMING THE TRAFFIC IS PASSING BY THE MACHINE ON THE WIRE THIS IS TRIVIALLY EASY FOR ANY NETWORK PROGRAMMER OF REASONABLE SKILL TO DO. IF THAT TRAFFIC IS EITHER UNENCRYPTED OR IT IS EASY TO BREAK THE ENCRYPTION… Folks, I have no way to know what the code in question does, but if there’s anything to this - anything at all - there is a major, as in biggest scam of the century - scandal here - something much, much bigger than Madoff or Stanford…